3 ms·

They "negotiate" by leaving.

electromagnetic 18y ago
I agree, I work in construction where there are clear, visible differences between two employees. If this kind of thing happened at one of the companies I've worked for or with then everyone would quit. The only people this benefits are the poor employees. I have some natural advantages over the next guy, namely that I can carry about 140 lbs of equipment, while a lot of the guys I've worked with can only carry probably 70-80 lbs. Basically I spend half the time with the petty crap and end up finishing the job sooner. I don't believe I should be getting paid the same as the next guy, I also don't think I should be paid as much as a guy who can carry 200 lbs and can get things done faster than me. If someone does 20% more than me, they should be paid 20% more. I don't believe in pay brackets and crap like what Unions use, because I've seen what unions do to people. I knew a guy who'd been in a dry waller's union for 20 years, he hadn't had a single pay rise since he got put into a foreman role, and he'd seen a lot of guys his age be canned because their wage was ridiculously high and they were too old to do the heavy lifting.
- LSalin 18y ago
  Based on Joel's ladder system, you would be paid more because your skills are higher (carrying 140 pounds versus 7-80 pounds for others).
- ShabbyDoo 18y ago
  I suspect (from nothing more than your writing skills) that you are quite a skilled tradesman.* Why don't construction companies hire strong but unskilled guys to haul stuff and let you be the guy who does the more technical stuff? * People who write well generally think well. Construction, beyond brute strength, requires mechanical thought. Therefore,...
  - radu_floricica 18y ago
    I have a client company who's receptionist has seen me as a courier, pc-repair main, client and programmer. Freelancing is fun :)
  - electromagnetic 18y ago
    It all depends on the construction site. The companies that do building houses and small business offices generally do have a few really strong guys doing the heavy hauling, back in the UK where I worked you'd get a guy carrying like 200 lbs of brick up a ladder. However, I specialized in the Handy-Man kind of work so there's too many different job sites or the companies too small to actually have a specific guy hauling stuff. So in the jobs I worked you had to be both smart and strong. Electrical, plumbing and gas can be extremely complicated to put in, especially when you're modifying a house that's over 50 years old. (At 17 I started working as a reviewer and the editor considered me the best they had. So I believe I have a high aptitude for writing. I've had a couple short stories published, and right now I'm working on a novel.)
- aboodman 18y ago
  Wait, you work in construction and read hacker news?
muon 18y ago
In have seen people, who leave at the critical time of project execution, then they back off with better deal. This has made sick of those kind people, and the management. In the end others look foolish for being honest.

I agree, I work in construction where there are clear, visible differences between two employees. If this kind of thing happened at one of the companies I've worked for or with then everyone would quit. The only people this benefits are the poor employees. I have some natural advantages over the next guy, namely that I can carry about 140 lbs of equipment, while a lot of the guys I've worked with can only carry probably 70-80 lbs. Basically I spend half the time with the petty crap and end up finishing the job sooner. I don't believe I should be getting paid the same as the next guy, I also don't think I should be paid as much as a guy who can carry 200 lbs and can get things done faster than me. If someone does 20% more than me, they should be paid 20% more. I don't believe in pay brackets and crap like what Unions use, because I've seen what unions do to people. I knew a guy who'd been in a dry waller's union for 20 years, he hadn't had a single pay rise since he got put into a foreman role, and he'd seen a lot of guys his age be canned because their wage was ridiculously high and they were too old to do the heavy lifting.

LSalin 18y ago
Based on Joel's ladder system, you would be paid more because your skills are higher (carrying 140 pounds versus 7-80 pounds for others).
ShabbyDoo 18y ago
I suspect (from nothing more than your writing skills) that you are quite a skilled tradesman.* Why don't construction companies hire strong but unskilled guys to haul stuff and let you be the guy who does the more technical stuff? * People who write well generally think well. Construction, beyond brute strength, requires mechanical thought. Therefore,...
- radu_floricica 18y ago
  I have a client company who's receptionist has seen me as a courier, pc-repair main, client and programmer. Freelancing is fun :)
- electromagnetic 18y ago
  It all depends on the construction site. The companies that do building houses and small business offices generally do have a few really strong guys doing the heavy hauling, back in the UK where I worked you'd get a guy carrying like 200 lbs of brick up a ladder. However, I specialized in the Handy-Man kind of work so there's too many different job sites or the companies too small to actually have a specific guy hauling stuff. So in the jobs I worked you had to be both smart and strong. Electrical, plumbing and gas can be extremely complicated to put in, especially when you're modifying a house that's over 50 years old. (At 17 I started working as a reviewer and the editor considered me the best they had. So I believe I have a high aptitude for writing. I've had a couple short stories published, and right now I'm working on a novel.)
aboodman 18y ago
Wait, you work in construction and read hacker news?

muon 18y ago

In have seen people, who leave at the critical time of project execution, then they back off with better deal. This has made sick of those kind people, and the management. In the end others look foolish for being honest.