20 ms·

Seems a little mean spirited - even if for a good cause and all.

nicedongle 14y ago
Hah, I'm going for the humor, does that help? http://teespring.com/DongleGate http://teespring.com/DongleGate
kaonashi 14y ago
In fact, that seems to be the entire point: to be mean spirited and obviate any responsibility by claiming to support a charity.
- Finbarr 14y ago
  There was really no intention to be mean spirited. The idea was just to shift the focus onto something relevant. Girls Who Code is a great cause. There's no need to buy a shirt to donate.
  - kaonashi 14y ago
    Shift the focus by putting the original tasteless remarks that started the whole ordeal on a t-shirt? Sorry, but I'm skeptical.
    - Finbarr 14y ago
      AFAIK we haven't quoted the original remarks and the phrase on the shirt is a nonsensical paraphrase of what was said. Part of the intention was to neutralize the words. Really, it's just a bit of fun and the best outcome would be to raise some money for women in tech.
      - taligent 14y ago
        Really, it's just a bit of fun and the best outcome would be to raise some money for women in tech. Yes. You're doing a wonderful thing to advance the cause of women in technology. I am sure women will be out in droves dying to buy this shirt.
  - pekk 14y ago
    Then why not just donate to Girls Who Code, and skip the snarky t-shirt?
    - Finbarr 14y ago
      Well, the collective donating power of many is much greater than a single donor.
  - cube13 14y ago
    I find it distasteful because it's not really that funny in this context. Dongle's a funny word, sure, but here, it just feels meanspirited. It's taking sides in an issue where nobody looks good. I don't have a problem with the joke being made. I don't have a problem Richards being offended and reporting it to the convention staff, and, as a matter of fact, I applaud her decision to do something about it. And PyCon's staff, from all reports, handled themselves very well in this situation. Could the two guys in the photo been a little more sensitive to those around them? Sure. Could Richards have followed the advice she wrote in her own blog post and talked to the two men or alerted the staff privately? Absolutely. Would this entire clusterfuck have been avoided if one of those two things happened? Yes. But both of those things happened, and it spiraled out of control. Because of one somewhat insensitive joke, and a really bad twitter post. Everything that's happened after: the twitter posts, the blog posts, the firings, the harrasment, the DDOS', it all leaves a really bad taste in my mouth, and I don't see anything funny about this at all. Because nobody involved here came out looking sympathetic. Richards used her soapbox to publicly shame two men who really didn't deserve much more than maybe a simple talking to. The two men who made the joke could have shown some restraint, but did not. Both of the companies probably made the wrong decision to fire the two, though in Play Haven's case, there could be other things we don't know about, and Richards dragged in her company into the conversation probably without their approval. Because it's been twisted into everyone's pet racism/sexism/ism trigger topic. Bigots are using Adria's behavior as an example of why women can't be trusted. People sensitive to issues of gender, sex, and race are using it as an example for why the entire industry's a cesspool of bigotry and sexism. For those of us who know that the truth is neither of those, it's incredibly disheartening, because you can choose your belief, and there's something here that will validate it. So yes, this just feels meanspirited.
- aneth4 14y ago
  Humor is the last refuge of those who refuse to be tied down by other people's issues.
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    Sorry, but there's no substitute for being wise, being open, and listening generously. History's villains had humor and laughter too. Laughter is not a magical ultimate good. It's just laughter, it's orthogonal to morality, and it doesn't excuse you from using your best judgement and "being a good guy."
    - aneth4 14y ago
      Villains are often wise, open, and listen generously. Actually mafia types are often some of the nicest people, as long as you don't cross them. Regardless, humor is an important technique for bringing perspective to situations, and helps us come back to realizing life is about being happy, not settling scores.
      - stcredzero 14y ago
        > Villains are often wise, open, and listen generously. Actually mafia types are often some of the nicest people, as long as you don't cross them. Manners, charm, and good listening are all things that are orthogonal to that whole good and evil thing. They are powerful tools, and often make ones life easier. They can even be a tremendous force for good. These are all orthogonal to good/evil, though. Musical talent is another thing people get mixed up about. Someone can be a musically talented jerkwad. The same goes for beauty, obviously. The same even goes for programming talent. > Regardless, humor is an important technique for bringing perspective to situations, and helps us come back to realizing life is about being happy, not settling scores. It can also be used as a bitter condiment while settling scores. Once again my point: Humor is orthogonal!
        aneth4 14y ago
        "Humor is the great thing, the saving thing after all. The minute it crops up, all our hardnesses yield, all our irritations, and resentments flit away, and a sunny spirit takes their place." - Mark Twain Those who can not laugh at themselves will justly be laughed at by others.
smsm42 14y ago
How is it mean spirited? I don't like the joke too much (maybe I'm too geeky but the underlying premise doesn't make sense to me and in a good joke it IMHO should) but why is it "mean"? Probably if you're invited to visit the home of one of the persons who suffered in the ordeal, it'd be mean to wear it, but otherwise - why mean?

Hah, I'm going for the humor, does that help? http://teespring.com/DongleGate http://teespring.com/DongleGate

In fact, that seems to be the entire point: to be mean spirited and obviate any responsibility by claiming to support a charity.

Finbarr 14y ago
There was really no intention to be mean spirited. The idea was just to shift the focus onto something relevant. Girls Who Code is a great cause. There's no need to buy a shirt to donate.
- kaonashi 14y ago
  Shift the focus by putting the original tasteless remarks that started the whole ordeal on a t-shirt? Sorry, but I'm skeptical.
  - Finbarr 14y ago
    AFAIK we haven't quoted the original remarks and the phrase on the shirt is a nonsensical paraphrase of what was said. Part of the intention was to neutralize the words. Really, it's just a bit of fun and the best outcome would be to raise some money for women in tech.
    - taligent 14y ago
      Really, it's just a bit of fun and the best outcome would be to raise some money for women in tech. Yes. You're doing a wonderful thing to advance the cause of women in technology. I am sure women will be out in droves dying to buy this shirt.
- pekk 14y ago
  Then why not just donate to Girls Who Code, and skip the snarky t-shirt?
  - Finbarr 14y ago
    Well, the collective donating power of many is much greater than a single donor.
- cube13 14y ago
  I find it distasteful because it's not really that funny in this context. Dongle's a funny word, sure, but here, it just feels meanspirited. It's taking sides in an issue where nobody looks good. I don't have a problem with the joke being made. I don't have a problem Richards being offended and reporting it to the convention staff, and, as a matter of fact, I applaud her decision to do something about it. And PyCon's staff, from all reports, handled themselves very well in this situation. Could the two guys in the photo been a little more sensitive to those around them? Sure. Could Richards have followed the advice she wrote in her own blog post and talked to the two men or alerted the staff privately? Absolutely. Would this entire clusterfuck have been avoided if one of those two things happened? Yes. But both of those things happened, and it spiraled out of control. Because of one somewhat insensitive joke, and a really bad twitter post. Everything that's happened after: the twitter posts, the blog posts, the firings, the harrasment, the DDOS', it all leaves a really bad taste in my mouth, and I don't see anything funny about this at all. Because nobody involved here came out looking sympathetic. Richards used her soapbox to publicly shame two men who really didn't deserve much more than maybe a simple talking to. The two men who made the joke could have shown some restraint, but did not. Both of the companies probably made the wrong decision to fire the two, though in Play Haven's case, there could be other things we don't know about, and Richards dragged in her company into the conversation probably without their approval. Because it's been twisted into everyone's pet racism/sexism/ism trigger topic. Bigots are using Adria's behavior as an example of why women can't be trusted. People sensitive to issues of gender, sex, and race are using it as an example for why the entire industry's a cesspool of bigotry and sexism. For those of us who know that the truth is neither of those, it's incredibly disheartening, because you can choose your belief, and there's something here that will validate it. So yes, this just feels meanspirited.
aneth4 14y ago
Humor is the last refuge of those who refuse to be tied down by other people's issues.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  Sorry, but there's no substitute for being wise, being open, and listening generously. History's villains had humor and laughter too. Laughter is not a magical ultimate good. It's just laughter, it's orthogonal to morality, and it doesn't excuse you from using your best judgement and "being a good guy."
  - aneth4 14y ago
    Villains are often wise, open, and listen generously. Actually mafia types are often some of the nicest people, as long as you don't cross them. Regardless, humor is an important technique for bringing perspective to situations, and helps us come back to realizing life is about being happy, not settling scores.
    - stcredzero 14y ago
      > Villains are often wise, open, and listen generously. Actually mafia types are often some of the nicest people, as long as you don't cross them. Manners, charm, and good listening are all things that are orthogonal to that whole good and evil thing. They are powerful tools, and often make ones life easier. They can even be a tremendous force for good. These are all orthogonal to good/evil, though. Musical talent is another thing people get mixed up about. Someone can be a musically talented jerkwad. The same goes for beauty, obviously. The same even goes for programming talent. > Regardless, humor is an important technique for bringing perspective to situations, and helps us come back to realizing life is about being happy, not settling scores. It can also be used as a bitter condiment while settling scores. Once again my point: Humor is orthogonal!
      - aneth4 14y ago
        "Humor is the great thing, the saving thing after all. The minute it crops up, all our hardnesses yield, all our irritations, and resentments flit away, and a sunny spirit takes their place." - Mark Twain Those who can not laugh at themselves will justly be laughed at by others.

smsm42 14y ago

How is it mean spirited? I don't like the joke too much (maybe I'm too geeky but the underlying premise doesn't make sense to me and in a good joke it IMHO should) but why is it "mean"? Probably if you're invited to visit the home of one of the persons who suffered in the ordeal, it'd be mean to wear it, but otherwise - why mean?