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I don't know your history, but I've heard that you have one Only one? I have, like, at least five or six, my friend. What sexist assumptions is white-collar W

I don't know your history, but I've heard that you have one Only one? I have, like, at least five or six, my friend. What sexist assumptions is white-collar Work [sic] culture based on? And how is it designed such that it is difficult for women to fit in? Dedication and ability are assessed, in most corporations, based on antiquated, counterproductive, and fascistic reliability measures that disfavor, for one example, taking maternity (or paternity) leave or dedicating substantial energy to childcare. For a variety of reasons, some cultural, reproduction and child-raising ends up taking more of a woman's time than a man's. It's almost impossible to take 5 years out of the career game and come back in with the standing you had when you left. While that's not sexist per se, it's incredibly fucking inhumane, and happens to inflict more harm on women. First off, I can tell you've never been anywhere near a trading floor, or a commercial bank for that matter. The entire industry is based on risk. What do you think trading is? The calculated harnessing of risk. You make bets. That is all. Pure risk. FAR more risky than technology. Oh, come on. You really think making $250,000 plus commission is "risky"? Yes, if you have a bad year and the firm isn't doing well, you might get fired. Here, "fired" means you get a shit bonus, and 4 months to find another job, usually a promotion. Yeah, that's risk all right. I know enough about finance to know what I'm talking about here. I'm not denigrating financial professionals. I've worked in a few Wall Street jobs, and liked most of the people. But it's not risky to work there. Risk (with others' funds) is part of the operational calculus but it's not personally risky to be an employee. Sure, there's financial risk (again, with others' money) involved, but you have much bigger risks as a technology founder. Like losing your savings (bootstrapping failure) or risking 3 years of your career on something that turns into a no-name dud. Or you could do a great job, get screwed over by partners or investors or management, get fired with no severance and your stock diluted in some perverse way. Shit like that happens. Playing games with other peoples' money (and getting a resume/credibility boost no matter what happens) isn't nearly as risky as putting 3 years of your life into something that might wreck your career for reasons that aren't your fault. Take advantage HOW? There's a set of very talented people who have no sense of their real worth, crappy negotiation skills, and an idealistic willingness to work long hours. Most of VC-istan is about turning them into pure gold for well-connected investors and useless executive implants (read: VCs' well-connected, underachieving friends). Who do you think is paying $2 million for small houses in Silicon Valley? Not programmers with their 0.03% slices of things that got beaten to shit by multiple liquidation preferences. I know you have a reputation, though, and I am ready to weather a storm in the name of truth. Good for you.

obstacle1 14y ago
You write in such a protracted, drawn-out fashion that it is hard to understand what you are saying. Please permit me to clarify. >Dedication and ability are assessed, in most corporations, based on antiquated, counterproductive, and fascistic reliability measures that disfavor, for one example, taking maternity (or paternity) leave or dedicating substantial energy to childcare White-collar work inherently discriminates against women because they could possibly get pregnant. Is this what you are saying? >You really think making $250,000 plus commission is "risky" Yes, that is why people are hired at such high salaries. Because they do well for a couple of years and then flame out, never to work in the industry again. Again, you are clearly far removed from the industry so I don't fault you for not knowing how compensation works in said industry. But it isn't like you're walking into a golden ticket. If you don't meet bar, you don't get your bonus, which is more often than not the bulk of your "salary". And then you get canned. No remorse. that is risk. >it's not personally risky to be an employee. I don't understand how you can say this if you've actually worked for Wall Street firms. >Like losing your savings (bootstrapping failure) Smart founders don't tap their savings dry on an unsure bet. >Playing games with other peoples' money (and getting a resume/credibility boost no matter what happens) isn't nearly as risky as putting 3 years of your life into something that might wreck your career for reasons that aren't your fault. Except that it is way MORE risky. If you start a company and fail, at least you can say "I started a company and failed" and the Silicon Valley Brigade will give you a job as a Rails programmer. If you fail slinging options, you're never working in that field again. Literally. I agree with your assessment of VCistan, now that you've expanded on it.
- verbalist 14y ago
  "If you start a company and fail, at least you can say "I started a company and failed" and the Silicon Valley Brigade will give you a job as a Rails programmer." Haha, this happened to me exactly. I didn't even know Ruby. Or Rails!
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  Your point about the fate of failed options traders does not gel with what I've seen. Yes, you get canned if you do poorly. Sometimes, just for being unlucky. (Startups work that way, too. Every job, these days, does that.) Also, it's correct that bonus is most of total compensation for top people-- sometimes over 90%-- which means not getting one really blows, but Wall Street salaries aren't exactly bad. If you were expecting a $3 million bonus, on top of your $250,000 salary, and got a Goose Egg during Comp, then are canned a month later with 6 months' severance, well... my heart bleeds for you. You've got half a year to get another job and, unless the market's completely fucked (cf. 2008) you'll get a promotion. Failed trading options? You'll trade something else if you want to trade, or you can move elsewhere. VCs will fund anyone with the Finance Stamp of Approval, at least in New York. Foursquare for ostrich farm? Here's your rocket fuel, now hire some ninjas and move the needle. Personally, though, I wouldn't want to be a trader. Quant is as close to that game as I'd want to go. I've seen what traders do and it doesn't look fun. It's not professionally risky, but it's still very stressful. I'll give you that. Sure, you can get another job after a failed startup, but usually as a subordinate, and that's viewed as dishonorable after 35 and untenable past 40. If you fail as a derivatives trader, VC-istan will let you be a founder. Sure, you're going from $250k plus a possible 1000% bonus to $200k and 15% of a startup. Again, my heart bleeds.

obstacle1 14y ago

You write in such a protracted, drawn-out fashion that it is hard to understand what you are saying. Please permit me to clarify. >Dedication and ability are assessed, in most corporations, based on antiquated, counterproductive, and fascistic reliability measures that disfavor, for one example, taking maternity (or paternity) leave or dedicating substantial energy to childcare White-collar work inherently discriminates against women because they could possibly get pregnant. Is this what you are saying? >You really think making $250,000 plus commission is "risky" Yes, that is why people are hired at such high salaries. Because they do well for a couple of years and then flame out, never to work in the industry again. Again, you are clearly far removed from the industry so I don't fault you for not knowing how compensation works in said industry. But it isn't like you're walking into a golden ticket. If you don't meet bar, you don't get your bonus, which is more often than not the bulk of your "salary". And then you get canned. No remorse. that is risk. >it's not personally risky to be an employee. I don't understand how you can say this if you've actually worked for Wall Street firms. >Like losing your savings (bootstrapping failure) Smart founders don't tap their savings dry on an unsure bet. >Playing games with other peoples' money (and getting a resume/credibility boost no matter what happens) isn't nearly as risky as putting 3 years of your life into something that might wreck your career for reasons that aren't your fault. Except that it is way MORE risky. If you start a company and fail, at least you can say "I started a company and failed" and the Silicon Valley Brigade will give you a job as a Rails programmer. If you fail slinging options, you're never working in that field again. Literally. I agree with your assessment of VCistan, now that you've expanded on it.

verbalist 14y ago
"If you start a company and fail, at least you can say "I started a company and failed" and the Silicon Valley Brigade will give you a job as a Rails programmer." Haha, this happened to me exactly. I didn't even know Ruby. Or Rails!
michaelochurch 14y ago
Your point about the fate of failed options traders does not gel with what I've seen. Yes, you get canned if you do poorly. Sometimes, just for being unlucky. (Startups work that way, too. Every job, these days, does that.) Also, it's correct that bonus is most of total compensation for top people-- sometimes over 90%-- which means not getting one really blows, but Wall Street salaries aren't exactly bad. If you were expecting a $3 million bonus, on top of your $250,000 salary, and got a Goose Egg during Comp, then are canned a month later with 6 months' severance, well... my heart bleeds for you. You've got half a year to get another job and, unless the market's completely fucked (cf. 2008) you'll get a promotion. Failed trading options? You'll trade something else if you want to trade, or you can move elsewhere. VCs will fund anyone with the Finance Stamp of Approval, at least in New York. Foursquare for ostrich farm? Here's your rocket fuel, now hire some ninjas and move the needle. Personally, though, I wouldn't want to be a trader. Quant is as close to that game as I'd want to go. I've seen what traders do and it doesn't look fun. It's not professionally risky, but it's still very stressful. I'll give you that. Sure, you can get another job after a failed startup, but usually as a subordinate, and that's viewed as dishonorable after 35 and untenable past 40. If you fail as a derivatives trader, VC-istan will let you be a founder. Sure, you're going from $250k plus a possible 1000% bonus to $200k and 15% of a startup. Again, my heart bleeds.