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(Replying here from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5420421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5420421 as comment limit reached) As the limit's been rea

by 14113 14y ago

(Replying here from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5420421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5420421 as comment limit reached) As the limit's been reached, and I'm not sure of the etiquette on hacker news for longer comments, I'll finish up my end of the discussion here. I think this is a classic internet situation where everybody's in the wrong, especially the two companies. To sum up my position: -The developers arguably shouldn't have made the jokes. I don't know if they were actually sexist jokes as (full disclosure) I'm not entirely trusting of everything Adria says, but as other people have mentioned, it was a professional event so they should have been conducting themselves professionally. -PlayHaven shouldn't have fired the developer. They could perhaps have publicly followed through with some disciplinary action, and issued a statement and apology essentially saying that they didn't support his actions, and it might have ended there. -SendGrid should have again followed through with disciplinary action in a similar manner. I think that prolonged exposure to Adria would have been harmful to their business, but that's a matter for them to consider and decide on. In the end though, I think Adria's done the most harm. There were channels available for dealing with sexist comments at the conference, and according to her own blog she used them. It should have ended there, but she unfortunately escalated which started the avalanche after the first firing. breath Anyway, I think that's my position summed up really. I would continue this further, but unfortunately I have no more contact info for you than username. As an aside however, I noticed you're a researcher in AI - something I'd like to get into at some point. How did you get into that particular area of research, and what would you say are the main prerequisites to doing research in that area? I'm currently doing a BSc in CS, and I have some space for focus next year, but I'm still a little unsure where to focus at the moment, and what I should be reading and doing at the side. Thanks for a nice civilised discussion! Have a good day!

_delirium 14y ago
Thanks for the civilized discussion as well! I agree that the immediate firings on both sides come off the worst. Announcing some miscellaneous investigation/discipline/etc. is one thing, but going straight to firing comes off, to me anyway, as more impulsive (and worrisome) than reassuring and decisive. I also agree that Twitter mobs are a bit worrisome. I'm perhaps mostly counter-worried about the principle of posting some words on twitter being seen as problematic. I do it a lot! Of course, I have only ~250 followers, so while technically public, it's only public in the sense that random tumblrs and blogs are public. What crosses the line into the other kind of public? I agree it can happen, I just don't know what to do about it that isn't worse. As an aside, the comment limit is actually "soft" in that if you click on a comment's own page (the "link" link) you can reply from there even if the reply link isn't showing up on the main page. It's intended to discourage extra-long comment threads, but you can still reply if you really want to, rather than posting a sibling comment. [contact info removed]
- 14113 14y ago
  Thanks for the link tip! I'm rather new here unfortunately, so I don't quite know how everything works unfortunately... I think this whole debarcle should be noted down in a book entitled "how not to do things". Everything, from the developers conduct, to Adria's reaction, to the internet's counter-reaction to the companies reactions just multiplied the problems further. Essentially the lesson I'm taking away from this is that it's incredibly necessary to think twice or three times before doing anything - especially in this internet connected age. Anyway - I'm still interested in how you got into AI, but I'll drop you an email to ask to keep the post thread down. I completely understand - it's probably trivial to find out who I am from my HN profile - but it's still better than it being explicit. Thanks!

by 14113 14y ago

_delirium 14y ago

Thanks for the civilized discussion as well! I agree that the immediate firings on both sides come off the worst. Announcing some miscellaneous investigation/discipline/etc. is one thing, but going straight to firing comes off, to me anyway, as more impulsive (and worrisome) than reassuring and decisive. I also agree that Twitter mobs are a bit worrisome. I'm perhaps mostly counter-worried about the principle of posting some words on twitter being seen as problematic. I do it a lot! Of course, I have only ~250 followers, so while technically public, it's only public in the sense that random tumblrs and blogs are public. What crosses the line into the other kind of public? I agree it can happen, I just don't know what to do about it that isn't worse. As an aside, the comment limit is actually "soft" in that if you click on a comment's own page (the "link" link) you can reply from there even if the reply link isn't showing up on the main page. It's intended to discourage extra-long comment threads, but you can still reply if you really want to, rather than posting a sibling comment. [contact info removed]

14113 14y ago
Thanks for the link tip! I'm rather new here unfortunately, so I don't quite know how everything works unfortunately... I think this whole debarcle should be noted down in a book entitled "how not to do things". Everything, from the developers conduct, to Adria's reaction, to the internet's counter-reaction to the companies reactions just multiplied the problems further. Essentially the lesson I'm taking away from this is that it's incredibly necessary to think twice or three times before doing anything - especially in this internet connected age. Anyway - I'm still interested in how you got into AI, but I'll drop you an email to ask to keep the post thread down. I completely understand - it's probably trivial to find out who I am from my HN profile - but it's still better than it being explicit. Thanks!