5 ms·

> People like that are hard to be around, constantly tip toe. It really isn't. Most of us that actually work in a professional environment aren't making crude

> People like that are hard to be around, constantly tip toe. It really isn't. Most of us that actually work in a professional environment aren't making crude jokes about sexual topics. And we sure as hell are on our best behaviour at offsite events. Clearly this is a foreign concept to you.

dinkumthinkum 14y ago
Best behavior at offsite events... There's nothing inherently wrong with this and perhaps hard to argue with; however, it just seems like something a cog in a wheel would say ... nothing mean spirited intended, just rubs me the wrong way. :)
- seivan 14y ago
  I'm with you there, was sorta dronish.
seivan 14y ago
Oh really? Well the question is, I am currently not sure how the person in question would react to a "Fork you" shirt. So...... that's the problem, that was my point. Where is the line? Because apparently that triggered. But somehow, "example" is a foreign concept to you, since you sorta got stuck on the "crude joke" portion. Way to go to miss the whole point.
- taligent 14y ago
  The "line" for professional conduct is really simple. If you are thinking about doing something ask yourself this question, "Would I do this if the CEO of our company was standing next to me".
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - jsmeaton 14y ago
    My CEO? Absolutely. If I worked at another company, probably not. You have to judge the company you're in, and if someone takes offence, apologise, and be more mindful next time.
  - dinkumthinkum 14y ago
    I don't think so. Many CEOs are irrational dunces and would react negatively if you admitted any flaws in the product or in yourself or anything of that nature. However, I don't think that as such makes it unprofessional. I think it's just common sense (which I'm aware is not so common).
burntsushi 14y ago
> It really isn't. If saying something like "I'd fork him on GitHub" is going to provoke you to publicly shame me, then you're difficult to be around.
CodeMage 14y ago
With certain people, it's not just about crude jokes. I think Lyndsy Simon summed it up pretty well in his comment on Avdi Grimm's G+ post [1]. It's not possible to link to a comment, so I'll reproduce it here: I was at a sprint on Monday, speaking to a female developer. She was discussing a project she'd worked on, and a coworker's method for solving a tricky problem. I said something along the lines of "So, which path did he take?". Her reply "She decided to..." Oh, crap. I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone, and I could tell she took issue with my presumption. Her tone was enough to call me out, and that was all that was said. About an hour later, I spoke with her away from everyone else and apologized. She said she didn't even notice, but I'm fairly sure she was sparing my feelings. Now, think about that - my own inadvertent actions were approximately on par with the "jokes" that this is all about. That could be me be lambasted around the world. I get that others feel excluded on a regular basis from things where I assume inclusion. I'm sorry, I do everything I can to make sure that's not the case when I'm involved - but the fact that someone who's "on their side" is concerned that their feet will be held to this fire is evidence that there is a lack of empathy from all sides of the debate, and that's a bad thing. [1]: https://plus.google.com/104757475552569715504/posts/N81SaYUT5xG https://plus.google.com/104757475552569715504/posts/N81SaYUT...
- ceol 14y ago
  Well, except nothing happened to him. He wasn't reported, he wasn't fired, his photo wasn't taken. So obviously it's not the same as those jokes.
  - burntsushi 14y ago
    That's irrelevant. Here's the concluding mark from the quote: > but the fact that someone who's "on their side" is concerned that their feet will be held to this fire is evidence that there is a lack of empathy from all sides of the debate, and that's a bad thing. He didn't say it was the same. He was commenting on his feelings and his perception of the social atmosphere.
    - ceol 14y ago

dinkumthinkum 14y ago

Best behavior at offsite events... There's nothing inherently wrong with this and perhaps hard to argue with; however, it just seems like something a cog in a wheel would say ... nothing mean spirited intended, just rubs me the wrong way. :)

seivan 14y ago
I'm with you there, was sorta dronish.

seivan 14y ago

Oh really? Well the question is, I am currently not sure how the person in question would react to a "Fork you" shirt. So...... that's the problem, that was my point. Where is the line? Because apparently that triggered. But somehow, "example" is a foreign concept to you, since you sorta got stuck on the "crude joke" portion. Way to go to miss the whole point.

taligent 14y ago
The "line" for professional conduct is really simple. If you are thinking about doing something ask yourself this question, "Would I do this if the CEO of our company was standing next to me".
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- jsmeaton 14y ago
  My CEO? Absolutely. If I worked at another company, probably not. You have to judge the company you're in, and if someone takes offence, apologise, and be more mindful next time.
- dinkumthinkum 14y ago
  I don't think so. Many CEOs are irrational dunces and would react negatively if you admitted any flaws in the product or in yourself or anything of that nature. However, I don't think that as such makes it unprofessional. I think it's just common sense (which I'm aware is not so common).

burntsushi 14y ago

> It really isn't. If saying something like "I'd fork him on GitHub" is going to provoke you to publicly shame me, then you're difficult to be around.

CodeMage 14y ago

With certain people, it's not just about crude jokes. I think Lyndsy Simon summed it up pretty well in his comment on Avdi Grimm's G+ post [1]. It's not possible to link to a comment, so I'll reproduce it here: I was at a sprint on Monday, speaking to a female developer. She was discussing a project she'd worked on, and a coworker's method for solving a tricky problem. I said something along the lines of "So, which path did he take?". Her reply "She decided to..." Oh, crap. I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone, and I could tell she took issue with my presumption. Her tone was enough to call me out, and that was all that was said. About an hour later, I spoke with her away from everyone else and apologized. She said she didn't even notice, but I'm fairly sure she was sparing my feelings. Now, think about that - my own inadvertent actions were approximately on par with the "jokes" that this is all about. That could be me be lambasted around the world. I get that others feel excluded on a regular basis from things where I assume inclusion. I'm sorry, I do everything I can to make sure that's not the case when I'm involved - but the fact that someone who's "on their side" is concerned that their feet will be held to this fire is evidence that there is a lack of empathy from all sides of the debate, and that's a bad thing. [1]: https://plus.google.com/104757475552569715504/posts/N81SaYUT5xG https://plus.google.com/104757475552569715504/posts/N81SaYUT...

ceol 14y ago
Well, except nothing happened to him. He wasn't reported, he wasn't fired, his photo wasn't taken. So obviously it's not the same as those jokes.
- burntsushi 14y ago
  That's irrelevant. Here's the concluding mark from the quote: > but the fact that someone who's "on their side" is concerned that their feet will be held to this fire is evidence that there is a lack of empathy from all sides of the debate, and that's a bad thing. He didn't say it was the same. He was commenting on his feelings and his perception of the social atmosphere.
  - ceol 14y ago