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Well this is the most ridiculous logic I've seen for a while. Just because I send two emails from my Gmail account doesn't mean they are related and/or relevan

Well this is the most ridiculous logic I've seen for a while. Just because I send two emails from my Gmail account doesn't mean they are related and/or relevant.

DannyBee 14y ago
I'm sorry, are we really discussing whether a person having recently made jokes about penises in public is relevant to whether it's okay for that same person to publicly shame two guys she accused of making jokes about penises in public?
- eridius 14y ago
  Are you really saying that her personal twitter stream, and being in the middle of the audience at a professional event, are the same thing?
  - catshirt 14y ago
    arbitrary and irrelevant. even if she made the joke in the privacy of her own home, and not on Twitter, it would still be a laughable contradiction. penis jokes on twitter = OK penis jokes behind me in public = BAD
  - DannyBee 14y ago
    Yes. In fact, her personal twitter stream is worse, IMHO. Her personal twitter stream has a larger audience than the audience of your "professional event". It's nice that all of the sudden "pycon" is a "professional event" as if people are all walking around in suits and ties and monocoles. Plenty of people go to conferences with friends as social events. Pycon is definitely like that for a lot of folks. That's why it's billed as an "annual gathering for the community". Talking privately in hushed tones at a conference you treat as a social event is, IMHO, much better than blaring it out publicly to 11,210 followers.
    - marshray 14y ago
      Monocles? I believe you're in the wrong room sir, that would be the Steampunk convention down the hall.
    - eridius 14y ago
      Everybody that's following her twitter stream chose to follow her twitter stream. That makes a huge difference. And it's also trivially easy to unfollow her stream if what she says offends you. Also, the context is very different. You may think of PyCon as a social gathering, but it is in fact work-related for a lot of people (including, presumably, Adria in her role as a developer evangelist). What's acceptable in an informal, personal setting (e.g. jokes made to people who explicitly chose to view her personal twitter stream) may not be acceptable in any kind of professional setting.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- chc 14y ago
  Your Twitter account is not exactly public in the same way that a crowded conference room is. One is a "pull" medium (i.e. I have to seek out your tweets), while the other is a "push" medium (i.e. I can't unsubscribe from your loud-talking). If you drive someone away from your Twitter feed with inappropriate jokes, that's OK, really — they just aren't a good fit for your feed and you'll both be happier. But if you drive someone away from a conference with your inappropriate jokes, that's not OK.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - keli 14y ago
    they weren't on the stage
    - eridius 14y ago
      And that matters how? They were in the middle of the audience, where the people around them couldn't help but to hear them, and they were violating the code of conduct at the event.
      - keli 14y ago
        Yeah, it was against the code of conduct. And they were members of a large audience. Not sure how either of those facts make it a big deal. PyCon's response was appropriate.
  - sophacles 14y ago
    Fair usually, however, the conference provided a mechanism by which she could "unsubscribe". Basically she joined a conversation, and didn't like it, and could have just left or asked them to stop. Or if she was uncomfortable with that, because it can be uncomfortable to do that, she could have asked the conference staff to help. Which she did. And they responded and ended the situation. The real problem is that she took what could have been a simple case of "inappropriate but dealt with" to a completely different and public level.
- bonaldi 14y ago
  Yes, because the contexts are wildly different, and so are the genders of the jokers. In terms of power relations, this is exactly the same as how people of colour can use the N-word and white people can't.
  - shock-value 14y ago
    Neither men nor women have a monopoly on anatomically-related jokes (of either gender). Not in the same way that it's unacceptable for a white person to use the 'n' word. I'm not even commenting on whether either gender _should_ have such a monopoly (they shouldn't in my view). But just in actual fact it is not so in our society today.
pbreit 14y ago
Comparing private email to public Twitter is asinine (even if the Twitter account was not used for professional purposes).
dinkumthinkum 14y ago
That's even worse logic. So if a political candidate posts on their personal public twitter, hateful messages against the US, no one should even worry about that because they are on a personal twitter? Do you know what a developer evangelist is or even what is expected of someone taking a representative role at a company? I don't know what this has to do with sending two letters from gmail. Sounds like argument from irrationality or grotesquely inappropriate analogy.

Well this is the most ridiculous logic I've seen for a while. Just because I send two emails from my Gmail account doesn't mean they are related and/or relevant.

DannyBee 14y ago

I'm sorry, are we really discussing whether a person having recently made jokes about penises in public is relevant to whether it's okay for that same person to publicly shame two guys she accused of making jokes about penises in public?

eridius 14y ago
Are you really saying that her personal twitter stream, and being in the middle of the audience at a professional event, are the same thing?
- catshirt 14y ago
  arbitrary and irrelevant. even if she made the joke in the privacy of her own home, and not on Twitter, it would still be a laughable contradiction. penis jokes on twitter = OK penis jokes behind me in public = BAD
- DannyBee 14y ago
  Yes. In fact, her personal twitter stream is worse, IMHO. Her personal twitter stream has a larger audience than the audience of your "professional event". It's nice that all of the sudden "pycon" is a "professional event" as if people are all walking around in suits and ties and monocoles. Plenty of people go to conferences with friends as social events. Pycon is definitely like that for a lot of folks. That's why it's billed as an "annual gathering for the community". Talking privately in hushed tones at a conference you treat as a social event is, IMHO, much better than blaring it out publicly to 11,210 followers.
  - marshray 14y ago
    Monocles? I believe you're in the wrong room sir, that would be the Steampunk convention down the hall.
  - eridius 14y ago
    Everybody that's following her twitter stream chose to follow her twitter stream. That makes a huge difference. And it's also trivially easy to unfollow her stream if what she says offends you. Also, the context is very different. You may think of PyCon as a social gathering, but it is in fact work-related for a lot of people (including, presumably, Adria in her role as a developer evangelist). What's acceptable in an informal, personal setting (e.g. jokes made to people who explicitly chose to view her personal twitter stream) may not be acceptable in any kind of professional setting.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
chc 14y ago
Your Twitter account is not exactly public in the same way that a crowded conference room is. One is a "pull" medium (i.e. I have to seek out your tweets), while the other is a "push" medium (i.e. I can't unsubscribe from your loud-talking). If you drive someone away from your Twitter feed with inappropriate jokes, that's OK, really — they just aren't a good fit for your feed and you'll both be happier. But if you drive someone away from a conference with your inappropriate jokes, that's not OK.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- keli 14y ago
  they weren't on the stage
  - eridius 14y ago
    And that matters how? They were in the middle of the audience, where the people around them couldn't help but to hear them, and they were violating the code of conduct at the event.
    - keli 14y ago
      Yeah, it was against the code of conduct. And they were members of a large audience. Not sure how either of those facts make it a big deal. PyCon's response was appropriate.
- sophacles 14y ago
  Fair usually, however, the conference provided a mechanism by which she could "unsubscribe". Basically she joined a conversation, and didn't like it, and could have just left or asked them to stop. Or if she was uncomfortable with that, because it can be uncomfortable to do that, she could have asked the conference staff to help. Which she did. And they responded and ended the situation. The real problem is that she took what could have been a simple case of "inappropriate but dealt with" to a completely different and public level.
bonaldi 14y ago
Yes, because the contexts are wildly different, and so are the genders of the jokers. In terms of power relations, this is exactly the same as how people of colour can use the N-word and white people can't.
- shock-value 14y ago
  Neither men nor women have a monopoly on anatomically-related jokes (of either gender). Not in the same way that it's unacceptable for a white person to use the 'n' word. I'm not even commenting on whether either gender _should_ have such a monopoly (they shouldn't in my view). But just in actual fact it is not so in our society today.

pbreit 14y ago

Comparing private email to public Twitter is asinine (even if the Twitter account was not used for professional purposes).

dinkumthinkum 14y ago

That's even worse logic. So if a political candidate posts on their personal public twitter, hateful messages against the US, no one should even worry about that because they are on a personal twitter? Do you know what a developer evangelist is or even what is expected of someone taking a representative role at a company? I don't know what this has to do with sending two letters from gmail. Sounds like argument from irrationality or grotesquely inappropriate analogy.