6 ms·

Making EmberJS Easier

146 points by MattRogish 14y ago

Terretta 14y ago
This is a spectacularly helpful response, speaking well to the culture and philosophy of those behind ember.js. I'm not sure Bill "I feel your pain" Clinton could have put it better.
sideproject 14y ago
ok. fair enough. this is a good response and now the community is eager to see the update on this. it would be fair to say that there are a number of developers out there who DO want to try EmberJS (myself included) and that's why there are so many passionate people commenting and discussing on the topic of difficulty in getting started with EmberJS. So I'd say this is a good problem for EmberJS team to have. And hope you guys deliver, because imagine the sheer number of people who will be behind this project when that happens. :) Good luck! I plan to come back to it when I can get my brain around it!
hashgowda 14y ago
Feedback also can be entered @ http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/ideas-for-improving-the-getting-started-experience/666 http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/ideas-for-improving-the-getting...
joebeetee 14y ago
Hey - quick thing - when logging in with Facebook to the discussion (http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/ideas-for-improving-the-getting-started-experience/666 http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/ideas-for-improving-the-getting...) I get the Facebook error "Invalid redirect_uri: Given URL is not permitted by the application configuration." which normally means there's something screwy with your app settings (https://developers.facebook.com/apps/413817622014573 https://developers.facebook.com/apps/413817622014573)
- rxcfc 14y ago
  Thanks for pointing this out, the comments are set up through Disqus so the problem may be on their end. We'll look into it.
  - floydpink 14y ago
    I guess, he is talking about discourse (discuss.emberjs.com) and not about the "discussion" on the OP.
    - rxcfc 14y ago
      Whoops, I misread.
supporting 14y ago
> "More productive out of the box." > "Write dramatically less code." > "Absolutely right. Ember promises—and, we think, delivers—tremendous value." No matter how often you say it, doesn't make it true. At a certain point, we have to stop just believing the hype at face value, and start actually evaluating what the piece of software really does with a critical perspective. Aren't the same guys who are telling you that Ember is simple and easy to use and high-performance and well-designed and ambitious and removes boilerplate and cures cancer and kisses babies ... the same guys who were saying the same things about SproutCore two years ago? http://web.archive.org/web/20110530004346/http://blog.sproutcore.com/announcing-sproutcore-2-0/ http://web.archive.org/web/20110530004346/http://blog.sprout... Isn't the data layer still totally unfinished? Didn't a lot of folks just get burned by wildly changing router APIs? Isn't it obvious from what few public production apps there are (after 2+ years) that the results end up sub-par, glitchy and wonky? Why would you want to spend time banging your head against the limitations and poor design choices of an over-marketed experimental framework? Let them actually finish the damn thing first, then let's talk about "getting started" with it.
- tomdale 14y ago
  This is a copy-and-paste version of what you said yesterday. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5411929 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5411929 For what it's worth, the SproutCore 2.0 project became the Ember project (see http://yehudakatz.com/2011/12/12/amber-js-formerly-sproutcore-2-0-is-now-ember-js/ http://yehudakatz.com/2011/12/12/amber-js-formerly-sproutcor...). SproutCore 2.0 was a brand-new codebase, which was renamed to Ember.js.
- chc 14y ago
  Wow, a middlebrow dismissal as the top comment. Imagine that.
  - rxcfc 14y ago
    You weren't coming to HN to find real discourse were you? :)
- _frog 14y ago
anonfunction 14y ago
Add http://addyosmani.github.com/todomvc/architecture-examples/emberjs/ http://addyosmani.github.com/todomvc/architecture-examples/e... to http://emberjs.com/guides/ http://emberjs.com/guides/ Congratulations it's now much easier.
codexon 14y ago
What's up with the recent burst of EmberJS, Angular, and Backbone stories on HN?
- kanja 14y ago
  They're exciting and new and probably going to be the future of the web. They all want the best of breed credit.
_frog 14y ago
It's great to see the Ember.js team focusing on these things as the framework approaches a 1.0 release. I've built a few apps on top of Ember over the past few months and that initial learning curve was what lead me to almost abandon it.
- _frog 14y ago
  Also it's good to see the community filling in gaps that exist in the development process. I got introduced to ember_tools[1] just yesterday and it looks like a great way to provide Rails-style generators for Ember projects. [1]: https://github.com/rpflorence/ember-tools https://github.com/rpflorence/ember-tools
  - wildmXranat 14y ago
    That's a nice and useful tool.
sudhanshu80 14y ago
Ember has been undoubted advantage for our startup. Its at the core of our client code, there were glitches in learning and rework with Router V2 API but that is still ok in exchange of what we got. So far, we love that we chose EmberJS and we are getting better at using it. But we wish the community grows and people find it easier to adapt.
- dominotw 14y ago
  Stop propagating the tired meme of 'using x gave us an advantage over other startups". When there is no way to quantify your claims.
  - xnxn 14y ago
    That was needlessly hostile, IMO.
    - sudhanshu80 14y ago
      I agree it cannot be quantified, but what I was sharing was an experience of ending up with a jquery spaghetti, so with Ember we were able to maintain a code which is well segregated. Then the boiler plate which offers two way binding had been a much of a save of time. Again no way to quantify, if I could have shared the Github with you, we are not an open source.
robotmay 14y ago
I put some effort into getting something working in Ember recently, and after the initial learning curve it did get a bit easier. I'm really glad that they've frozen the API and are getting to work on better documentation.
pc86 14y ago
I really do feel dumb asking this. What the hell does Ember do? Is it another front-end MVC JS library? Is it a competitor to Node? Rails? CodeIgniter? "Ambitious web applications" tells me jack and I get no indication of what its "tremendous value" is. Edit: That sounds a little more aggressive than I meant it to. If anyone can explain it without vomiting buzz words I'd love to understand because it seems intriguing.
- tomku 14y ago
  My impression of it is that it's a front-end MVC library that's patterned more after the traditional MVC used in desktop/mobile apps than the Rails-style MVC that's ubiquitous on the server.
- wmil 14y ago
  Front-end MVC JS library. It also has data binding and other features.

146 points by MattRogish 14y ago

This is a spectacularly helpful response, speaking well to the culture and philosophy of those behind ember.js. I'm not sure Bill "I feel your pain" Clinton could have put it better.

sideproject 14y ago

ok. fair enough. this is a good response and now the community is eager to see the update on this. it would be fair to say that there are a number of developers out there who DO want to try EmberJS (myself included) and that's why there are so many passionate people commenting and discussing on the topic of difficulty in getting started with EmberJS. So I'd say this is a good problem for EmberJS team to have. And hope you guys deliver, because imagine the sheer number of people who will be behind this project when that happens. :) Good luck! I plan to come back to it when I can get my brain around it!

hashgowda 14y ago

Feedback also can be entered @ http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/ideas-for-improving-the-getting-started-experience/666 http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/ideas-for-improving-the-getting...

joebeetee 14y ago

Hey - quick thing - when logging in with Facebook to the discussion (http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/ideas-for-improving-the-getting-started-experience/666 http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/ideas-for-improving-the-getting...) I get the Facebook error "Invalid redirect_uri: Given URL is not permitted by the application configuration." which normally means there's something screwy with your app settings (https://developers.facebook.com/apps/413817622014573 https://developers.facebook.com/apps/413817622014573)

rxcfc 14y ago
Thanks for pointing this out, the comments are set up through Disqus so the problem may be on their end. We'll look into it.
- floydpink 14y ago
  I guess, he is talking about discourse (discuss.emberjs.com) and not about the "discussion" on the OP.
  - rxcfc 14y ago
    Whoops, I misread.

supporting 14y ago

> "More productive out of the box." > "Write dramatically less code." > "Absolutely right. Ember promises—and, we think, delivers—tremendous value." No matter how often you say it, doesn't make it true. At a certain point, we have to stop just believing the hype at face value, and start actually evaluating what the piece of software really does with a critical perspective. Aren't the same guys who are telling you that Ember is simple and easy to use and high-performance and well-designed and ambitious and removes boilerplate and cures cancer and kisses babies ... the same guys who were saying the same things about SproutCore two years ago? http://web.archive.org/web/20110530004346/http://blog.sproutcore.com/announcing-sproutcore-2-0/ http://web.archive.org/web/20110530004346/http://blog.sprout... Isn't the data layer still totally unfinished? Didn't a lot of folks just get burned by wildly changing router APIs? Isn't it obvious from what few public production apps there are (after 2+ years) that the results end up sub-par, glitchy and wonky? Why would you want to spend time banging your head against the limitations and poor design choices of an over-marketed experimental framework? Let them actually finish the damn thing first, then let's talk about "getting started" with it.

tomdale 14y ago
This is a copy-and-paste version of what you said yesterday. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5411929 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5411929 For what it's worth, the SproutCore 2.0 project became the Ember project (see http://yehudakatz.com/2011/12/12/amber-js-formerly-sproutcore-2-0-is-now-ember-js/ http://yehudakatz.com/2011/12/12/amber-js-formerly-sproutcor...). SproutCore 2.0 was a brand-new codebase, which was renamed to Ember.js.
chc 14y ago
Wow, a middlebrow dismissal as the top comment. Imagine that.
- rxcfc 14y ago
  You weren't coming to HN to find real discourse were you? :)
_frog 14y ago

anonfunction 14y ago

Add http://addyosmani.github.com/todomvc/architecture-examples/emberjs/ http://addyosmani.github.com/todomvc/architecture-examples/e... to http://emberjs.com/guides/ http://emberjs.com/guides/ Congratulations it's now much easier.

codexon 14y ago

What's up with the recent burst of EmberJS, Angular, and Backbone stories on HN?

kanja 14y ago
They're exciting and new and probably going to be the future of the web. They all want the best of breed credit.

_frog 14y ago

It's great to see the Ember.js team focusing on these things as the framework approaches a 1.0 release. I've built a few apps on top of Ember over the past few months and that initial learning curve was what lead me to almost abandon it.

_frog 14y ago
Also it's good to see the community filling in gaps that exist in the development process. I got introduced to ember_tools[1] just yesterday and it looks like a great way to provide Rails-style generators for Ember projects. [1]: https://github.com/rpflorence/ember-tools https://github.com/rpflorence/ember-tools
- wildmXranat 14y ago
  That's a nice and useful tool.

sudhanshu80 14y ago

Ember has been undoubted advantage for our startup. Its at the core of our client code, there were glitches in learning and rework with Router V2 API but that is still ok in exchange of what we got. So far, we love that we chose EmberJS and we are getting better at using it. But we wish the community grows and people find it easier to adapt.

dominotw 14y ago
Stop propagating the tired meme of 'using x gave us an advantage over other startups". When there is no way to quantify your claims.
- xnxn 14y ago
  That was needlessly hostile, IMO.
  - sudhanshu80 14y ago
    I agree it cannot be quantified, but what I was sharing was an experience of ending up with a jquery spaghetti, so with Ember we were able to maintain a code which is well segregated. Then the boiler plate which offers two way binding had been a much of a save of time. Again no way to quantify, if I could have shared the Github with you, we are not an open source.

robotmay 14y ago

I put some effort into getting something working in Ember recently, and after the initial learning curve it did get a bit easier. I'm really glad that they've frozen the API and are getting to work on better documentation.

pc86 14y ago

I really do feel dumb asking this. What the hell does Ember do? Is it another front-end MVC JS library? Is it a competitor to Node? Rails? CodeIgniter? "Ambitious web applications" tells me jack and I get no indication of what its "tremendous value" is. Edit: That sounds a little more aggressive than I meant it to. If anyone can explain it without vomiting buzz words I'd love to understand because it seems intriguing.

tomku 14y ago
My impression of it is that it's a front-end MVC library that's patterned more after the traditional MVC used in desktop/mobile apps than the Rails-style MVC that's ubiquitous on the server.
wmil 14y ago
Front-end MVC JS library. It also has data binding and other features.