4 ms·

I think the most interesting part of this post was a simple observation that I, for one, hadn't seen elsewhere: We don't know why PlayHaven fired the dev in th

I think the most interesting part of this post was a simple observation that I, for one, hadn't seen elsewhere: We don't know why PlayHaven fired the dev in the first place. Sure, the controversy undoubtedly played a role. But we don't know if the dev was on the ropes, if he wasn't pulling his weight, or if his boss simply didn't like him. This may have been a gross overreaction, or it may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. As story-driven creatures, we constantly seek to form narratives around events. As sensation-seekers, we inherently care more about emotional impact than veracity when we craft the mental stories that tie events together and give them meaning. This is not to say that we are incapable of detached, rational thought, but rather that our brains don't default to that mode. One of my biggest personal takeaways from this sordid tale is just a reaffirmation of that fact: that even smart, rational people, who get paid to be smart and rational, will blindly abandon reason in pursuit of a good story. This incident blew up into a tabloid-like frenzy because smart people abandoned reason in favour of sensation. Moreover, this is not due to some personal flaw on their parts: it's simply how we, as human beings, are built. If anything positive comes from this, I hope it's simply a greater recognition on the parts of all concerned of our propensity to engage in this kind of behaviour, and the mental processes that lead to it. Maybe we can be a little more measured in our appraisal of future incidents like this.

niggler 14y ago
"We don't know why PlayHaven fired the dev in the first place." Many, including myself, have raised the question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5418714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5418714 1 hour ago
- monksy 14y ago
  The lack of transparency is not indicative of further "guilt". Anything more than what was said is speculation.
  - niggler 14y ago
    Given that one employee was retained and the other was let go, the firing could not have stemmed 100% from the issue at hand. One person was clearly not a " valued employee," unlike the other person from playhaven.
    - danielweber 14y ago
      Maybe one person said "hey boss, it was me saying all that, Bob was only listening, it's not his fault." (NB: I pulled the name Bob out of thin air.)
xoail 14y ago
I doubt if there was any other case than the controversy. I doubt that the dev was any where incompetent. I say this simply because of the dev's interest in attending a conference and his company sponsoring it to him using forking and dongles in a sentence... those are simply good signals of a good developer and he being happy at his job. I feel that Pay Haven responded in a most defensive way by simply firing him and getting it out of their shoulders.
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  It may well be the case that the controversy was the only factor in his termination, but none of us have the requisite information to confidently make that claim.
- niggler 14y ago
  " him using forking and dongles in a sentence... those are simply good signals of a good developer" Pray tell, how does a plebeian joke about dongles signal that a developer is good? "dev's interest in attending a conference and his company sponsoring it" And as for his presence, it's not uncommon for a company to send a key developer and a friendly coworker to conferences, especially when it is far away (so he may just have been a friendly coworker of Andy Reid)
  - rdtsc 14y ago
    > Pray tell I will testify, brother. ;-) It think what the gp post was saying is that usually (in most companies) developers who are not very good or are not pulling their weight, are not sent to conferences. What is the freaking reason to send someone to a conference to learn and bring new ideas if they are about to be sent out of the door? I don't know about friendly coworkers. Maybe other companies do that, we don't. In my experience it is not about friendliness but about who deserves to go and who is passionate about programming. And, yeah, I agree, I don't see any correlation between him making dongle jokes or being or not being a good programmer.
  - Draco6slayer 14y ago
    I would say that using technical terms in a joking way is definitely a sign of enjoying one's job, and enjoying one's job is definitely a significant data point as to gauging whether one is good at it. If you can talk about your job without criticizing it and laugh, I would say you enjoy what you do and therefore that you do it well.
cobrausn 14y ago
http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/ http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/ PlayHaven adressed this directly. They are blaming it on the incident at PyCon.
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  >We value and protect the privacy of our employees, both past and present, and we will not comment on all the factors that contributed to our parting ways. All I get from that is that it played a role. In fact, their statement is tacit support of the argument that the controversy wasn't the only factor in their decision.
  - cobrausn 14y ago
    I agree - there were multiple factors. But... PlayHaven had an employee who was identified as making inappropriate comments at PyCon, and as a company that is dedicated to gender equality and values honorable behavior, we conducted a thorough investigation. The result of this investigation led to the unfortunate outcome of having to let this employee go. Notice the result of this investigation part. Maybe this guy has had issues in the past, or maybe they just didn't like his code, but by all appearances, he would not be jobless if this investigation had not been started.
    - vellum 14y ago
      Maybe he was more junior. If you look on Alex Reid's linkedin, it says he's a core engineer. I don't see anyone else in Playhaven with that title.
    - TheCapn 14y ago
      Without knowing PlayHaven directly in this context its hard to say what those words mean. They come off as PR for covering their ass. I'd be surprised if any thorough investigation could be concluded so quickly. The fact that they state employee privacy is of importance yet clearly outline he was dismissed also sends flags up for me. To specifically say their decision goes beyond privacy when he is clearly identified through the picture and other channels is to say "we fired mr-hank" a point that is already covered within this thread of discussion. To say "we have investigated the complaints and taken appropriate action" is a safer bet legally. These are just speculation, but my interpretation is that the response was a hasty PR damage control rather than a rational response.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
smokeyj 14y ago
> Moreover, this is not due to some personal flaw on their parts: it's simply how we, as human beings, are built. This. We just witnessed a snowball turn into an avalanch. I know I've experienced this in personal relationships more than once. Emotions make us great and they make us terrible. Which gave me an idea: A bug tracker for relationships. Addressing a problem immediately sounds good on paper, but we often need time to distance ourselves to be able to think critically. If couples started using a bug-tracker for relationship issues, you could log the issue in detail when it happens, sit on it for a few days, and address it up when both parties are level headed. I doubt I'd ever want to use this product, but if anyone else wants to..
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  It was hilarious: http://bigbangtheory.wikia.com/wiki/The_Beta_Test_Initiation http://bigbangtheory.wikia.com/wiki/The_Beta_Test_Initiation
  - brador 14y ago
    Who's writing all that content for Wikia (a for profit wiki)? it's starting to rival wikipedia.
    - mkr-hn 14y ago
      The people turned off by overzealous culling at Wikipedia.
      - cbs 14y ago
        Isn't Wikia also created by Jimbo Wales? He's pushing the content off of Wikipeida to his for-profit site! Collusion!
    - dspeyer 14y ago
      Wikia is a for-profit supplier of wiki hosting. bigbangtheory.wikia.com is a (probably not-for-profit) fan group that uses wikia's product.
YooLi 14y ago
By the same token, we don't really know why SendGrid fired Adria. The post mentioned that SendGrid failed by not immediately making a statement (or forcing her to publicly apologize), then over-reacting by firing her too late. But we really don't know what was going on at SendGrid behind the scenes. Maybe they were trying to work with her and she wouldn't change her position, or maybe they just didn't know what to do.
- Torgo 14y ago
  For the last three HN threads I have seen people casting aspersions on the guy who was fired, that maybe there were other factors at play. Now it comes out from someone that knows Richards that she is a bit of a difficult person herself. Maybe there were more factors at play in her firing than simply this event. Of course who knows, but it's fun and easy to cast aspersions!
  - redthrowaway 14y ago
    >I have seen people casting aspersions on the guy who was fired I hope you don't include me in that category. It was never my intent to disparage the dev; I simply found the statement that we don't know the whole story behind his firing to be a compelling one.
    - Torgo 14y ago
      (I didn't mean you.)

niggler 14y ago

"We don't know why PlayHaven fired the dev in the first place." Many, including myself, have raised the question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5418714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5418714 1 hour ago

monksy 14y ago
The lack of transparency is not indicative of further "guilt". Anything more than what was said is speculation.
- niggler 14y ago
  Given that one employee was retained and the other was let go, the firing could not have stemmed 100% from the issue at hand. One person was clearly not a " valued employee," unlike the other person from playhaven.
  - danielweber 14y ago
    Maybe one person said "hey boss, it was me saying all that, Bob was only listening, it's not his fault." (NB: I pulled the name Bob out of thin air.)

xoail 14y ago

I doubt if there was any other case than the controversy. I doubt that the dev was any where incompetent. I say this simply because of the dev's interest in attending a conference and his company sponsoring it to him using forking and dongles in a sentence... those are simply good signals of a good developer and he being happy at his job. I feel that Pay Haven responded in a most defensive way by simply firing him and getting it out of their shoulders.

redthrowaway 14y ago
It may well be the case that the controversy was the only factor in his termination, but none of us have the requisite information to confidently make that claim.
niggler 14y ago
" him using forking and dongles in a sentence... those are simply good signals of a good developer" Pray tell, how does a plebeian joke about dongles signal that a developer is good? "dev's interest in attending a conference and his company sponsoring it" And as for his presence, it's not uncommon for a company to send a key developer and a friendly coworker to conferences, especially when it is far away (so he may just have been a friendly coworker of Andy Reid)
- rdtsc 14y ago
  > Pray tell I will testify, brother. ;-) It think what the gp post was saying is that usually (in most companies) developers who are not very good or are not pulling their weight, are not sent to conferences. What is the freaking reason to send someone to a conference to learn and bring new ideas if they are about to be sent out of the door? I don't know about friendly coworkers. Maybe other companies do that, we don't. In my experience it is not about friendliness but about who deserves to go and who is passionate about programming. And, yeah, I agree, I don't see any correlation between him making dongle jokes or being or not being a good programmer.
- Draco6slayer 14y ago
  I would say that using technical terms in a joking way is definitely a sign of enjoying one's job, and enjoying one's job is definitely a significant data point as to gauging whether one is good at it. If you can talk about your job without criticizing it and laugh, I would say you enjoy what you do and therefore that you do it well.

cobrausn 14y ago

http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/ http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/ PlayHaven adressed this directly. They are blaming it on the incident at PyCon.

redthrowaway 14y ago
>We value and protect the privacy of our employees, both past and present, and we will not comment on all the factors that contributed to our parting ways. All I get from that is that it played a role. In fact, their statement is tacit support of the argument that the controversy wasn't the only factor in their decision.
- cobrausn 14y ago
  I agree - there were multiple factors. But... PlayHaven had an employee who was identified as making inappropriate comments at PyCon, and as a company that is dedicated to gender equality and values honorable behavior, we conducted a thorough investigation. The result of this investigation led to the unfortunate outcome of having to let this employee go. Notice the result of this investigation part. Maybe this guy has had issues in the past, or maybe they just didn't like his code, but by all appearances, he would not be jobless if this investigation had not been started.
  - vellum 14y ago
    Maybe he was more junior. If you look on Alex Reid's linkedin, it says he's a core engineer. I don't see anyone else in Playhaven with that title.
  - TheCapn 14y ago
    Without knowing PlayHaven directly in this context its hard to say what those words mean. They come off as PR for covering their ass. I'd be surprised if any thorough investigation could be concluded so quickly. The fact that they state employee privacy is of importance yet clearly outline he was dismissed also sends flags up for me. To specifically say their decision goes beyond privacy when he is clearly identified through the picture and other channels is to say "we fired mr-hank" a point that is already covered within this thread of discussion. To say "we have investigated the complaints and taken appropriate action" is a safer bet legally. These are just speculation, but my interpretation is that the response was a hasty PR damage control rather than a rational response.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

smokeyj 14y ago

> Moreover, this is not due to some personal flaw on their parts: it's simply how we, as human beings, are built. This. We just witnessed a snowball turn into an avalanch. I know I've experienced this in personal relationships more than once. Emotions make us great and they make us terrible. Which gave me an idea: A bug tracker for relationships. Addressing a problem immediately sounds good on paper, but we often need time to distance ourselves to be able to think critically. If couples started using a bug-tracker for relationship issues, you could log the issue in detail when it happens, sit on it for a few days, and address it up when both parties are level headed. I doubt I'd ever want to use this product, but if anyone else wants to..

ChuckMcM 14y ago
It was hilarious: http://bigbangtheory.wikia.com/wiki/The_Beta_Test_Initiation http://bigbangtheory.wikia.com/wiki/The_Beta_Test_Initiation
- brador 14y ago
  Who's writing all that content for Wikia (a for profit wiki)? it's starting to rival wikipedia.
  - mkr-hn 14y ago
    The people turned off by overzealous culling at Wikipedia.
    - cbs 14y ago
      Isn't Wikia also created by Jimbo Wales? He's pushing the content off of Wikipeida to his for-profit site! Collusion!
  - dspeyer 14y ago
    Wikia is a for-profit supplier of wiki hosting. bigbangtheory.wikia.com is a (probably not-for-profit) fan group that uses wikia's product.

YooLi 14y ago

By the same token, we don't really know why SendGrid fired Adria. The post mentioned that SendGrid failed by not immediately making a statement (or forcing her to publicly apologize), then over-reacting by firing her too late. But we really don't know what was going on at SendGrid behind the scenes. Maybe they were trying to work with her and she wouldn't change her position, or maybe they just didn't know what to do.

Torgo 14y ago
For the last three HN threads I have seen people casting aspersions on the guy who was fired, that maybe there were other factors at play. Now it comes out from someone that knows Richards that she is a bit of a difficult person herself. Maybe there were more factors at play in her firing than simply this event. Of course who knows, but it's fun and easy to cast aspersions!
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  >I have seen people casting aspersions on the guy who was fired I hope you don't include me in that category. It was never my intent to disparage the dev; I simply found the statement that we don't know the whole story behind his firing to be a compelling one.
  - Torgo 14y ago
    (I didn't mean you.)