5 ms·

TS Eliot refused to publish George Orwell's Animal Farm

25 points by robg 18y ago

ojbyrne 18y ago
I think "damning" is a little hyperbolic. Anyway poets are generally not very astute politically (c.f. Ezra Pound).
- omouse 18y ago
  As a counter-example, I present Lord Byron!
  - ojbyrne 18y ago
    From wikipedia: A strong advocate of social reform, he received particular praise as one of the few Parliamentary defenders of the Luddites: specifically, he was against a death penalty for Luddite "frame breakers" in Nottinghamshire, who destroyed textile machines that were putting them out of work. His first speech before the Lords was loaded with sarcastic references to the "benefits" of automation, which he saw as producing inferior material as well as putting people out of work. Other than the death penalty thing, support of the Luddites seems hardly defensible.
    - easp 18y ago
      What's your beef with the "Luddites?" Byron was supporting the original Luddites, not the knee-jerk technophobes the term has come to represent. I don't condone their use of violence, but I don't find it any more morally appalling than a society that is happy to reap the benefits of progress while washing its hands of the very real harm that progress can inflict on a minority of its members, particularly in a society with limited economic and social mobility.
- robg 18y ago
  Thanks nameless editor!
- gruseom 18y ago
  Define "astute". By some measures, Eliot was pretty damn adept politically.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
nazgulnarsil 18y ago
I plug this every time George Orwell comes up. A Fantastic piece on writing, language, and how language influences thought. http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm
- ATB 18y ago
  The popular linguistics blog "Language Log" had some interesting commentary on "Politics and the English Language" written in a calmly analytical style (interspersed with some judicious jibes) that I think many YC.HN readers will find rather agreeable: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=992 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=992 The entire 'Prescriptivist Poppycock' category at Language Log is generally good reading: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=5 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=5
  - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
    I think all the things criticized were intentional. It's hard not to think that a writer of Orwell's caliber would say something without meaning exactly what he said. A careful read becomes: "these are good general rules, and in describing them I'll also show you how to break them when appropriate". It would be fitting with Orwell's style in his fiction writing.
- Radix 18y ago
  I just read that today. It's fantastic. I submitted it thinking there must be some number of people (ducks) who haven't read it. I would have done better to just upvote you. I like the formatting here better: http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit#fnt_2 http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit...
  - ableal 18y ago
    You may want to check it out at another very good e-book library: http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79e/part42.html http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79e/part42.ht... The U. Adelaide guy has been doing a great job for quite a few years. I confess I hadn't visited recently - they have redecorated (with blog instead of "what's new" page, etc.)
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
ableal 18y ago
The Arts and Letters Daily (at http://www.aldaily.com/ http://www.aldaily.com/ ) covers these topics well. Usually just three new links per day. They hit this one Monday. (satisfied customer since 1997 or so ... digging foxhole in anticipation of "web 0.1 design" outrage ... "works great for me" defense ready ...) P.S. scan down ALDaily's first column for the tale of Orwell's son. Not literary, but tells the mettle of the man, which is also good to know.
- gruseom 18y ago
  Yes, it can be interesting to learn about the family life of famous people. Often it contradicts the public side. Gandhi's is a striking example. I found the article about Orwell's son a good read. Not sure why the author assumes having Orwell as a father would be "pretty grim", though.
  - ableal 18y ago
    Nineteen Eighty-Four is not exactly sunshine and roses. It is forgivable to surmise the author would not be a happy camper. I was glad to know Orwell shared some happiness with his tyke in his final years. (On the other hand, the great spreader of sweetness and light, P.G. Wodehouse, who I also like, seems to have been pretty quiet and unadventurous in person.)
- brandnewlow 18y ago
  That was wonderful. Thank you.
asciilifeform 18y ago
I find it curious that no one is commenting on the craven, cowardly and intellectually dishonest nature of the rejection itself. "It wouldn't do to publish this." "I'm not sure if that is the thing that needs saying now." "It might upset our Russian friends." Pick up the complete set of Orwell's essays ($20 or so) and enjoy his masterful flames (yes, he reads stylistically like classic Usenet or the best of modern blogging) where he obliterates the castrated, sniveling, power-worshiping pseudointellectuals of his day.

25 points by robg 18y ago

ojbyrne 18y ago

I think "damning" is a little hyperbolic. Anyway poets are generally not very astute politically (c.f. Ezra Pound).

omouse 18y ago
As a counter-example, I present Lord Byron!
- ojbyrne 18y ago
  From wikipedia: A strong advocate of social reform, he received particular praise as one of the few Parliamentary defenders of the Luddites: specifically, he was against a death penalty for Luddite "frame breakers" in Nottinghamshire, who destroyed textile machines that were putting them out of work. His first speech before the Lords was loaded with sarcastic references to the "benefits" of automation, which he saw as producing inferior material as well as putting people out of work. Other than the death penalty thing, support of the Luddites seems hardly defensible.
  - easp 18y ago
    What's your beef with the "Luddites?" Byron was supporting the original Luddites, not the knee-jerk technophobes the term has come to represent. I don't condone their use of violence, but I don't find it any more morally appalling than a society that is happy to reap the benefits of progress while washing its hands of the very real harm that progress can inflict on a minority of its members, particularly in a society with limited economic and social mobility.
robg 18y ago
Thanks nameless editor!
gruseom 18y ago
Define "astute". By some measures, Eliot was pretty damn adept politically.

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

nazgulnarsil 18y ago

I plug this every time George Orwell comes up. A Fantastic piece on writing, language, and how language influences thought. http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

ATB 18y ago
The popular linguistics blog "Language Log" had some interesting commentary on "Politics and the English Language" written in a calmly analytical style (interspersed with some judicious jibes) that I think many YC.HN readers will find rather agreeable: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=992 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=992 The entire 'Prescriptivist Poppycock' category at Language Log is generally good reading: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=5 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=5
- nazgulnarsil 18y ago
  I think all the things criticized were intentional. It's hard not to think that a writer of Orwell's caliber would say something without meaning exactly what he said. A careful read becomes: "these are good general rules, and in describing them I'll also show you how to break them when appropriate". It would be fitting with Orwell's style in his fiction writing.
Radix 18y ago
I just read that today. It's fantastic. I submitted it thinking there must be some number of people (ducks) who haven't read it. I would have done better to just upvote you. I like the formatting here better: http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit#fnt_2 http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit...
- ableal 18y ago
  You may want to check it out at another very good e-book library: http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79e/part42.html http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79e/part42.ht... The U. Adelaide guy has been doing a great job for quite a few years. I confess I hadn't visited recently - they have redecorated (with blog instead of "what's new" page, etc.)

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

ableal 18y ago

The Arts and Letters Daily (at http://www.aldaily.com/ http://www.aldaily.com/ ) covers these topics well. Usually just three new links per day. They hit this one Monday. (satisfied customer since 1997 or so ... digging foxhole in anticipation of "web 0.1 design" outrage ... "works great for me" defense ready ...) P.S. scan down ALDaily's first column for the tale of Orwell's son. Not literary, but tells the mettle of the man, which is also good to know.

gruseom 18y ago
Yes, it can be interesting to learn about the family life of famous people. Often it contradicts the public side. Gandhi's is a striking example. I found the article about Orwell's son a good read. Not sure why the author assumes having Orwell as a father would be "pretty grim", though.
- ableal 18y ago
  Nineteen Eighty-Four is not exactly sunshine and roses. It is forgivable to surmise the author would not be a happy camper. I was glad to know Orwell shared some happiness with his tyke in his final years. (On the other hand, the great spreader of sweetness and light, P.G. Wodehouse, who I also like, seems to have been pretty quiet and unadventurous in person.)
brandnewlow 18y ago
That was wonderful. Thank you.

asciilifeform 18y ago

I find it curious that no one is commenting on the craven, cowardly and intellectually dishonest nature of the rejection itself. "It wouldn't do to publish this." "I'm not sure if that is the thing that needs saying now." "It might upset our Russian friends." Pick up the complete set of Orwell's essays ($20 or so) and enjoy his masterful flames (yes, he reads stylistically like classic Usenet or the best of modern blogging) where he obliterates the castrated, sniveling, power-worshiping pseudointellectuals of his day.