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> I would feel really uncomfortable if I was in the same > room as this person. What if I accidentally say > something that she finds offensive? Am I next

> I would feel really uncomfortable if I was in the same > room as this person. What if I accidentally say > something that she finds offensive? Am I next? I wouldn't feel uncomfortable around her at all, because I find it very easy to avoid saying sexually inappropriate things to women I don't know. I have quite an off-color sense of humor myself. I joke a lot and a lot of those jokes involve sex, bodily functions, and imagery many might find disturbing. And yet I have no problem restricting this kind of humor to friendships and relationships where we've established the fact that both parties find that kind of humor funny. It just honestly doesn't seem difficult to me, and I'm not a genius.

misnome 14y ago
What about cases where you think it's just you and your friends joking between each other, and someone overhears, takes a picture of you and then publicly crucifies you online?
- rmc 14y ago
  Well if you're at a conference with a publicised Code of Conduct that says no sexuality jokes, then... well... maybe don't do it there? They literally wrote it down.
  - _ak 14y ago
    Yes, and the situation on the conference was reported to the conference staff, the people involved were talked to, and the situation was resolved. Or so, it seems. Then Aria continued her public shaming, and the whole thing escalated.
- JohnBooty 14y ago
  This hasn't ever been an issue for me. I understand that when I'm seated at a conference, the people around me can hear what I'm saying, and adjust the volume of my voice and/or the content of my speech accordingly. > ...and someone overhears, takes a picture of you > and then publicly crucifies you online? The guy's actions and Adria's actions are two separate things, really. I'd still be in the wrong for subjecting a stranger to an unwanted series of sexual jokes, whether they handled it poorly or they handled it in a really outstanding way. I'm not sure what you're getting at. It's okay to say whatever you want if the other person responds poorly?
  - katbyte 14y ago
    you've now left the conference, you on the bus/tram/whatever on the way back to the hotel with your friends joking around. You make an inappropriate remark/joke and she overhears. She overreacts, snaps a pic of you wearing your badge/company shirt and tweets it. Where does the line get drawn?
    - JohnBooty 14y ago
      The line gets drawn here: it's not good behavior to subject a stranger to unwanted sexual banter. You can change the setting to a bus, or a train, or a tent in the Himalayas.
      - katbyte 14y ago
        So your saying anytime in public a penis joke is out of line? So when in public we cannot say anything that may potentially offend someone? I can't say god doesn't exist for fear of offending the religious? i can't say god does exist for fear of offending the atheists? That's some line you drew.
        JohnBooty 14y ago
        Why would you need to subject a stranger to your sex jokes or your proclamations about the existence/non-existence of God? Seriously, you should get to know somebody a little bit before you discuss that stuff. Or simply wait for some kind of indication they actually want to talk about it with you. Sure, it's true that literally anything you might offend somebody and that you can never totally avoid that. I'm sure there's a person somewhere in the world who has a panic attack every time they see somebody wearing a green sweater. Should we have to somehow anticipate this and avoid wearing green sweaters? No. Sexual jokes from strange men aren't like that, though. That's not some fringe thing; that's something that actually makes a significant amount of women uncomfortable. You can respect their wishes or not respect their wishes. Personally, I'm immature enough to enjoy penis jokes, but mature enough to respect that not every woman wants to hear one from men she doesn't know.
joshstrange 14y ago
But that is the problem, "I find it very easy to avoid saying sexually inappropriate things to women I don't know." They weren't talking to her or even about her. They had their own conversation and she overheard it and instead of being an adult and turning around to say something she tweeted it and caused someone to lose their job. I too can keep from saying sexually inappropriate things to women however that is not what happened in this case.
- danellis 14y ago
  The adult thing to do would be to just ignore it, and not act like people are entitled to live in some comfortable bubble where they get to whine if anyone in their vicinity acts in a way they don't like or approve of.
tomp 14y ago
Maybe you were just brought up differently, or there is some other cause for you behaviour that is different from the grandparent's. Doesn't make you any better, though. Personally, I don't have a hard time controlling myself and not saying things. However, I don't want to control myself; I prefer to just say what I feel like saying, and I allow people to disassociate from me if they don't like it. I'm terribly annoyed by people that put words before actions and judge other by what they say. Having said that, if an employer fired me because they would find me unlikable, I wouldn't blame them.
jmagoon 14y ago
Agreed. It always strikes me as so odd when men say things like, "I have to walk on eggshells around that person, because they're constantly getting offended." News flash, it's not that hard to not offend people, and men aren't suddenly forerunners of liberal thought because we don't make sexist or racist jokes. I mean, Jesus. Pretend you're speaking to your mother if it's really that hard.
nilkn 14y ago
I'm pretty sure at some point in your life you've made a very mildly off-color joke to a friend and someone else overheard. Should you have lost your job?
- JohnBooty 14y ago
  > I'm pretty sure at some point in your life you've > made a very mildly off-color joke to a friend and > someone else overheard. I'm absolutely sure I have, and shame on me for those times. I was in the wrong. > Should you have lost your job? Well, I was definitely in the wrong during each of those occasions. Should I have lost my job? That would depend on a lot of things, such as whether or not I was being inappropriate while attending a conference on my employer's dime. I agree that it's awfully harsh to lose one's job over a single penis joke. I'm not saying that this guy should have lost his job. It's possible that this was a kneejerk overreaction on his employer's part, and it's also possible that this guy had other issues that already had him on thin ice when this incident happened. Nor am I necessarily agreeing with how Adria handled this incident. Whether we think she should have handled it differently or not, though, it doesn't change the fact that it's not cool to subject a stranger to unwanted sexual conversation.
Proleps 14y ago
> I wouldn't feel uncomfortable around her at all It is extremely easy to offend this woman. Just look at her twitter posts https[0], she plays every card in the book in this occasion she plays the racism card while arguing that she can't be a racist herself[1]. [0] https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313946261055221760 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313946261055221760 [1] https://twitter.com/adriarichards/statuses/6039856858 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/statuses/6039856858
- king_jester 14y ago
  No, she said she as a black woman cannot be racist towards white people. On an individual level, sure she could be racist towards a white person. However, the social power imbalance is way against her in almost every way compared to white people with institutions enforcing racist actions and policies against black folks way more often and more severely.
  - katbyte 14y ago
    That doesn't mean blacks cannot be racist against whites. Anyone can be racist or sexist no matter how oppressed they are.
    - shardling 14y ago
      Some people use different definitions of those words; and under those definitions, it is not true that anyone can be racist. When they talk about racism or sexism, they are talking about their manifestation in society, which is not an action one individual can take. In this context, saying that something/someone is sexist or racist says nothing about intention, only the effect of the behavior or social structure. Further, if a behavior does not align with an existing power imbalance in society, it would not be considered x-ism; a black woman who discriminates against white men is not expressing and reinforcing an existing type of oppression, so that behavior would not be considered racist or sexist. (Remember, it's not about intentions, and it doesn't mean that the behavior is ok.) If you think this sounds weird, please do still try to take some time to understand why this terminology arose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Sociological http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Sociological
koz_ 14y ago
I suspect the person who got fired wouldn't have self-identified as someone who finds it difficult to avoid saying sexually inappropriate things, either.
atirip 14y ago
>because I find it very easy to avoid saying sexually inappropriate things to women I don't know. How do you know what women you do not know find sexually inappropriate??
- JohnBooty 14y ago
  Easy: avoid saying sexual things to total strangers. Once you get to know people, you'll get to know their sense of humor pretty quickly, and generally sexual jokes are completely okay between friends!

misnome 14y ago

What about cases where you think it's just you and your friends joking between each other, and someone overhears, takes a picture of you and then publicly crucifies you online?

rmc 14y ago
Well if you're at a conference with a publicised Code of Conduct that says no sexuality jokes, then... well... maybe don't do it there? They literally wrote it down.
- _ak 14y ago
  Yes, and the situation on the conference was reported to the conference staff, the people involved were talked to, and the situation was resolved. Or so, it seems. Then Aria continued her public shaming, and the whole thing escalated.
JohnBooty 14y ago
This hasn't ever been an issue for me. I understand that when I'm seated at a conference, the people around me can hear what I'm saying, and adjust the volume of my voice and/or the content of my speech accordingly. > ...and someone overhears, takes a picture of you > and then publicly crucifies you online? The guy's actions and Adria's actions are two separate things, really. I'd still be in the wrong for subjecting a stranger to an unwanted series of sexual jokes, whether they handled it poorly or they handled it in a really outstanding way. I'm not sure what you're getting at. It's okay to say whatever you want if the other person responds poorly?
- katbyte 14y ago
  you've now left the conference, you on the bus/tram/whatever on the way back to the hotel with your friends joking around. You make an inappropriate remark/joke and she overhears. She overreacts, snaps a pic of you wearing your badge/company shirt and tweets it. Where does the line get drawn?
  - JohnBooty 14y ago
    The line gets drawn here: it's not good behavior to subject a stranger to unwanted sexual banter. You can change the setting to a bus, or a train, or a tent in the Himalayas.
    - katbyte 14y ago
      So your saying anytime in public a penis joke is out of line? So when in public we cannot say anything that may potentially offend someone? I can't say god doesn't exist for fear of offending the religious? i can't say god does exist for fear of offending the atheists? That's some line you drew.
      - JohnBooty 14y ago
        Why would you need to subject a stranger to your sex jokes or your proclamations about the existence/non-existence of God? Seriously, you should get to know somebody a little bit before you discuss that stuff. Or simply wait for some kind of indication they actually want to talk about it with you. Sure, it's true that literally anything you might offend somebody and that you can never totally avoid that. I'm sure there's a person somewhere in the world who has a panic attack every time they see somebody wearing a green sweater. Should we have to somehow anticipate this and avoid wearing green sweaters? No. Sexual jokes from strange men aren't like that, though. That's not some fringe thing; that's something that actually makes a significant amount of women uncomfortable. You can respect their wishes or not respect their wishes. Personally, I'm immature enough to enjoy penis jokes, but mature enough to respect that not every woman wants to hear one from men she doesn't know.

joshstrange 14y ago

But that is the problem, "I find it very easy to avoid saying sexually inappropriate things to women I don't know." They weren't talking to her or even about her. They had their own conversation and she overheard it and instead of being an adult and turning around to say something she tweeted it and caused someone to lose their job. I too can keep from saying sexually inappropriate things to women however that is not what happened in this case.

danellis 14y ago
The adult thing to do would be to just ignore it, and not act like people are entitled to live in some comfortable bubble where they get to whine if anyone in their vicinity acts in a way they don't like or approve of.

tomp 14y ago

Maybe you were just brought up differently, or there is some other cause for you behaviour that is different from the grandparent's. Doesn't make you any better, though. Personally, I don't have a hard time controlling myself and not saying things. However, I don't want to control myself; I prefer to just say what I feel like saying, and I allow people to disassociate from me if they don't like it. I'm terribly annoyed by people that put words before actions and judge other by what they say. Having said that, if an employer fired me because they would find me unlikable, I wouldn't blame them.

jmagoon 14y ago

Agreed. It always strikes me as so odd when men say things like, "I have to walk on eggshells around that person, because they're constantly getting offended." News flash, it's not that hard to not offend people, and men aren't suddenly forerunners of liberal thought because we don't make sexist or racist jokes. I mean, Jesus. Pretend you're speaking to your mother if it's really that hard.

nilkn 14y ago

I'm pretty sure at some point in your life you've made a very mildly off-color joke to a friend and someone else overheard. Should you have lost your job?

JohnBooty 14y ago
> I'm pretty sure at some point in your life you've > made a very mildly off-color joke to a friend and > someone else overheard. I'm absolutely sure I have, and shame on me for those times. I was in the wrong. > Should you have lost your job? Well, I was definitely in the wrong during each of those occasions. Should I have lost my job? That would depend on a lot of things, such as whether or not I was being inappropriate while attending a conference on my employer's dime. I agree that it's awfully harsh to lose one's job over a single penis joke. I'm not saying that this guy should have lost his job. It's possible that this was a kneejerk overreaction on his employer's part, and it's also possible that this guy had other issues that already had him on thin ice when this incident happened. Nor am I necessarily agreeing with how Adria handled this incident. Whether we think she should have handled it differently or not, though, it doesn't change the fact that it's not cool to subject a stranger to unwanted sexual conversation.

Proleps 14y ago

> I wouldn't feel uncomfortable around her at all It is extremely easy to offend this woman. Just look at her twitter posts https[0], she plays every card in the book in this occasion she plays the racism card while arguing that she can't be a racist herself[1]. [0] https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313946261055221760 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313946261055221760 [1] https://twitter.com/adriarichards/statuses/6039856858 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/statuses/6039856858

king_jester 14y ago
No, she said she as a black woman cannot be racist towards white people. On an individual level, sure she could be racist towards a white person. However, the social power imbalance is way against her in almost every way compared to white people with institutions enforcing racist actions and policies against black folks way more often and more severely.
- katbyte 14y ago
  That doesn't mean blacks cannot be racist against whites. Anyone can be racist or sexist no matter how oppressed they are.
  - shardling 14y ago
    Some people use different definitions of those words; and under those definitions, it is not true that anyone can be racist. When they talk about racism or sexism, they are talking about their manifestation in society, which is not an action one individual can take. In this context, saying that something/someone is sexist or racist says nothing about intention, only the effect of the behavior or social structure. Further, if a behavior does not align with an existing power imbalance in society, it would not be considered x-ism; a black woman who discriminates against white men is not expressing and reinforcing an existing type of oppression, so that behavior would not be considered racist or sexist. (Remember, it's not about intentions, and it doesn't mean that the behavior is ok.) If you think this sounds weird, please do still try to take some time to understand why this terminology arose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Sociological http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Sociological

koz_ 14y ago

I suspect the person who got fired wouldn't have self-identified as someone who finds it difficult to avoid saying sexually inappropriate things, either.

atirip 14y ago

>because I find it very easy to avoid saying sexually inappropriate things to women I don't know. How do you know what women you do not know find sexually inappropriate??

JohnBooty 14y ago
Easy: avoid saying sexual things to total strangers. Once you get to know people, you'll get to know their sense of humor pretty quickly, and generally sexual jokes are completely okay between friends!