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So, you'd rather see her name totally vilified and run out of the industry instead? Where's the understanding and tolerance for questionable conduct that was o

So, you'd rather see her name totally vilified and run out of the industry instead? Where's the understanding and tolerance for questionable conduct that was offered to the two guys making jokes now?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- niggler 14y ago
  The problem with this line of argument is that she didn't intend to get him fired. The most that should have happened was a larger discussion. The fact that he was fired was an overreaction by the employer, not her.
  - nirvdrum 14y ago
    While that may be strictly true, we've now created an environment where if you don't deal with something as quickly as humanly possible, you get crushed with negative publicity. So the company could either sit back and seem to condone sexism or fire him and hopefully come out the moral victor. Clearly a false dichotomy, but one of our own creation. Twitter is routinely used as a tool for bullying (for good causes or bad) rather than reasonable discourse. The 140 char limit and ease of retweets makes the former trivial and the latter all but impossible. I routinely think we'd all be better off if it just went away.
    - niggler 14y ago
      "I routinely think we'd all be better off if it just went away." I fully agree that Twitter has done a disservice to our discourse.
- knowtheory 14y ago
  Once again, the woman in question was not seeking to get anyone fired, and has also said she didn't think it was right that the guy was fired. The level of hypocrisy over this is flabbergastingly large.
  - tdfx 14y ago
    I don't think she could've imagined that he would've been fired over something like that. I'm sure that surprised everyone. The "bullying" I referred to was simply exposing those developers' picture to her considerably-sized twitter audience. With her position and the scope of her influence, that alone is bullying. The firing, her followup posts, etc. just make everything worse.
adamnemecek 14y ago
Did I say that I would want that? Also, there was a certain point at which, had she apologized and said something along the lines of "I'm really sorry about the fact that I escalated the whole situation more than was necessary. The thing is that the tech community as a whole still has a somewhat sexist vibe which I, as well as others, have been trying to eradicate. Unfortunately, innocent bystanders were caught in the crossfire, for which I'm truly sorry." This would have placated the people who think that she went too far without her having to give up her position.
- knowtheory 14y ago
  Sure, i agree whole heartedly. That's on her. What's on us is all of the comments saying things like "you'd be crazy to ever hire her." "SHE'LL never work in this industry again." Great. Really tolerant. (And don't get me wrong, i'm one of the folks pissed at the way she conducted herself, but i'm way more pissed off at the mob that's whipped up this incident into something it never should have been)
  - adamnemecek 14y ago
    If I said, "If you let your toddler play in a tiger cage, you are crazy." would you ask me "Why do you want toddlers to get mauled by tigers"? Maybe I wouldn't want it to happen, but it would regardless of my desires. I was just stating a fact about what will happen, whether you or I agree with it or not.
    - knowtheory 14y ago
      Mm. A lot of these comments preclude the possibility that Adria might grow, change, or rehabilitate herself. And as such, these come off very much as if they're putting nails into her coffin. There are people who do deserve to be run out of their industries, Stephen Glass, or Jonah Lehrer come to mind immediately. That is not a proportionate or reasonable response to what has happened here, but then, nothing about these circumstances have been proportionate or reasonable.
tdfx 14y ago
The conduct was not comparable. Their conduct was immature, surely, and PyCon had a process in place to deal with it (and they did). Adria did not let it stop there and used her influence and position to publicly bully them under the guise of fighting for gender equality.

So, you'd rather see her name totally vilified and run out of the industry instead? Where's the understanding and tolerance for questionable conduct that was offered to the two guys making jokes now?

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

niggler 14y ago
The problem with this line of argument is that she didn't intend to get him fired. The most that should have happened was a larger discussion. The fact that he was fired was an overreaction by the employer, not her.
- nirvdrum 14y ago
  While that may be strictly true, we've now created an environment where if you don't deal with something as quickly as humanly possible, you get crushed with negative publicity. So the company could either sit back and seem to condone sexism or fire him and hopefully come out the moral victor. Clearly a false dichotomy, but one of our own creation. Twitter is routinely used as a tool for bullying (for good causes or bad) rather than reasonable discourse. The 140 char limit and ease of retweets makes the former trivial and the latter all but impossible. I routinely think we'd all be better off if it just went away.
  - niggler 14y ago
    "I routinely think we'd all be better off if it just went away." I fully agree that Twitter has done a disservice to our discourse.
knowtheory 14y ago
Once again, the woman in question was not seeking to get anyone fired, and has also said she didn't think it was right that the guy was fired. The level of hypocrisy over this is flabbergastingly large.
- tdfx 14y ago
  I don't think she could've imagined that he would've been fired over something like that. I'm sure that surprised everyone. The "bullying" I referred to was simply exposing those developers' picture to her considerably-sized twitter audience. With her position and the scope of her influence, that alone is bullying. The firing, her followup posts, etc. just make everything worse.

adamnemecek 14y ago

Did I say that I would want that? Also, there was a certain point at which, had she apologized and said something along the lines of "I'm really sorry about the fact that I escalated the whole situation more than was necessary. The thing is that the tech community as a whole still has a somewhat sexist vibe which I, as well as others, have been trying to eradicate. Unfortunately, innocent bystanders were caught in the crossfire, for which I'm truly sorry." This would have placated the people who think that she went too far without her having to give up her position.

knowtheory 14y ago
Sure, i agree whole heartedly. That's on her. What's on us is all of the comments saying things like "you'd be crazy to ever hire her." "SHE'LL never work in this industry again." Great. Really tolerant. (And don't get me wrong, i'm one of the folks pissed at the way she conducted herself, but i'm way more pissed off at the mob that's whipped up this incident into something it never should have been)
- adamnemecek 14y ago
  If I said, "If you let your toddler play in a tiger cage, you are crazy." would you ask me "Why do you want toddlers to get mauled by tigers"? Maybe I wouldn't want it to happen, but it would regardless of my desires. I was just stating a fact about what will happen, whether you or I agree with it or not.
  - knowtheory 14y ago
    Mm. A lot of these comments preclude the possibility that Adria might grow, change, or rehabilitate herself. And as such, these come off very much as if they're putting nails into her coffin. There are people who do deserve to be run out of their industries, Stephen Glass, or Jonah Lehrer come to mind immediately. That is not a proportionate or reasonable response to what has happened here, but then, nothing about these circumstances have been proportionate or reasonable.

tdfx 14y ago

The conduct was not comparable. Their conduct was immature, surely, and PyCon had a process in place to deal with it (and they did). Adria did not let it stop there and used her influence and position to publicly bully them under the guise of fighting for gender equality.