8 ms·

Start — Dart web framework inspired by Sinatra

42 points by lvivski 14y ago

lucisferre 14y ago
Really rooting for Dart personally, but I'm going to watch for the sidelines and stick with Rails, Ruby and Coffeescript for a while longer.
taylorlapeyre 14y ago
Interesting. Haven't seen many Dart projects so far.
- Ovid 14y ago
  I have to confess that after read through the Dart specs, all I could think was "meh". Google had a chance to throw their weight behind some powerful language advancements, but all I saw was a boring Java/Javascript hybrid. And given that Dart will never be natively embedded in Safari or IE, it's going to be very hard to get traction on it. I suspect that's why you haven't seen many projects in Dart.
  - kyrra 14y ago
    Agreed, the language syntax itself is very boring. Listening to talks from their language designers, I think they are even annoyed a little that they can't do more interesting things with the syntax. I've been following dart for a while now, and here's the feel I get from the language: * Dart's goal is not to explore exciting new syntax, it's about giving developers a language that can quickly start being productive on. * Cleaning up a lot of the messy syntax that exist in Javascript today. * Be able to easily and efficiently compile to Javascript. This seems to be the reason for a lot of the language syntax decisions. * Provide a full development experience (language, tools, ui, etc...) out of the box.
    - lvivski 14y ago
      Dart syntax is familiar and it's a plus, you don't have to learn new syntax quirks.
    - tadfisher 14y ago
      A very important feature is class-based object orientation, which the vast majority of developers are familiar with, thus it is more natural to use compared to prototype-based OO. Also, tool-visible types allow for better/easier tool-assisted development, something that has been a stumbling block even in the most monstrous of IDEs. For example, ever ctrl-clicked a function assigned to a var in Eclipse?
      - kyrra 14y ago
        yup. No prototype inheritance is huge, plus having a single entry point for an app is huge. These 2 provide a lot of VM optimization opportunities.
  - ahoge 14y ago
    Dart is supposed to be "boring". Their intention was to create a language which is familiar to anyone who used Java, C#, AS3, JavaScript, or any other C-like language in the past. From my own experience, I'd say that this strategy worked exactly as intended. I was able to write code after skimming through some of the examples. To be honest, I only bothered with Dart because it used C-like syntax. Also, it compiles to surprisingly fast JavaScript [1]. Support by all browser vendors isn't necessary. You can use it either way. The lack of support really doesn't change anything. You'd use a build/deploy script either way, wouldn't you? [1] https://plus.google.com/u/0/114943499066504644906/posts/WXNLUoX95Ri https://plus.google.com/u/0/114943499066504644906/posts/WXNL...
- michaelwww 14y ago
  Another interesting one is https://github.com/dart-lang/web-ui https://github.com/dart-lang/web-ui
- lvivski 14y ago
  Well, Start uses another project called Hart [1] template engine that has syntax similar to Slim or Jade. And I'm going to include Gloss [2] there too, it's a CSS preprocessor, but it's not stable yet. [1] http://github.com/lvivski/hart http://github.com/lvivski/hart [2] http://github.com/lvivski/gloss http://github.com/lvivski/gloss
- mythz 14y ago
  I've also created a lightweight Express-inspired framework at: https://github.com/Dartist/Express https://github.com/Dartist/Express Since Dart lacks the ability to extend built-in types using something like extension methods, categories or refinements as seen in other languages I think exposing a user-controlled class is the way to go as it lets you expose a framework-focused, value-added, user-facing DRY API.
  - Daegalus 14y ago
    I went a much similar route with my lightweight express-inspried framework. I made user-controlled classes that get populated with relevant data and middleware information. Like stuff from form parsing. https://github.com/Daegalus/fukiya https://github.com/Daegalus/fukiya
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- sethladd 14y ago
  [disclaimer, I work on the Dart project] You might be interested in checking out http://pub.dartlang.org http://pub.dartlang.org which is our repository of Dart packages. Meanwhile, we're still in beta, so I hope to see more projects when we hit 1.0.
andyl 14y ago
Dart is Google's attempt to kill off another OpenWeb technology. This time their sights are trained on Javascript. Dart : Javascript :: Reader : RSS
- lvivski 14y ago
  Dart is a language and a platform behind it. It's really easy do develop advanced applications in Dart and then translate them to javascript. But you are also able to run it in a separate VM.
- Inufu 14y ago
  Not really. Dart and Javascript are both languages, while Reader is an application that uses RSS. Having spoken with one of the people who works on Dart, the idea is not to kill an open standard (why would Google do that?), but rather to fix the horrible mess that is Javascript. Same thing for the shutdown of Reader - how does that prevent you from using any other RSS reader?
  - andyl 14y ago
    -> the idea is not to kill an open standard (why would Google do that?) Controlling the language gives you unique power over the whole ecosystem. Google gets to decide what is permissible, and what is not. Google is tearing out their OpenWeb support and building walled gardens. The more Dart becomes popular, the more we become locked in to Google, and the more our options and possibilities are constrained.
    - michaelwww 14y ago
      By your logic, Linux users are locked into a walled garden Linus Torvalds created. If Dart becomes popular, there's nothing stopping Mozilla and Microsoft from creating a Dart Compiler and VM. It's encouraged in fact. JavaScript will continue to be the target language of many transpilers such as Clojure and CoffeeScript. People will use whatever tool suits their needs.
      - 14y ago
mapleoin 14y ago
Loving the test suite.
- lvivski 14y ago
  :) well I have no test for now, but there will be test for route parsing and other stuff.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

42 points by lvivski 14y ago

Really rooting for Dart personally, but I'm going to watch for the sidelines and stick with Rails, Ruby and Coffeescript for a while longer.

taylorlapeyre 14y ago

Interesting. Haven't seen many Dart projects so far.

Ovid 14y ago
I have to confess that after read through the Dart specs, all I could think was "meh". Google had a chance to throw their weight behind some powerful language advancements, but all I saw was a boring Java/Javascript hybrid. And given that Dart will never be natively embedded in Safari or IE, it's going to be very hard to get traction on it. I suspect that's why you haven't seen many projects in Dart.
- kyrra 14y ago
  Agreed, the language syntax itself is very boring. Listening to talks from their language designers, I think they are even annoyed a little that they can't do more interesting things with the syntax. I've been following dart for a while now, and here's the feel I get from the language: * Dart's goal is not to explore exciting new syntax, it's about giving developers a language that can quickly start being productive on. * Cleaning up a lot of the messy syntax that exist in Javascript today. * Be able to easily and efficiently compile to Javascript. This seems to be the reason for a lot of the language syntax decisions. * Provide a full development experience (language, tools, ui, etc...) out of the box.
  - lvivski 14y ago
    Dart syntax is familiar and it's a plus, you don't have to learn new syntax quirks.
  - tadfisher 14y ago
    A very important feature is class-based object orientation, which the vast majority of developers are familiar with, thus it is more natural to use compared to prototype-based OO. Also, tool-visible types allow for better/easier tool-assisted development, something that has been a stumbling block even in the most monstrous of IDEs. For example, ever ctrl-clicked a function assigned to a var in Eclipse?
    - kyrra 14y ago
      yup. No prototype inheritance is huge, plus having a single entry point for an app is huge. These 2 provide a lot of VM optimization opportunities.
- ahoge 14y ago
  Dart is supposed to be "boring". Their intention was to create a language which is familiar to anyone who used Java, C#, AS3, JavaScript, or any other C-like language in the past. From my own experience, I'd say that this strategy worked exactly as intended. I was able to write code after skimming through some of the examples. To be honest, I only bothered with Dart because it used C-like syntax. Also, it compiles to surprisingly fast JavaScript [1]. Support by all browser vendors isn't necessary. You can use it either way. The lack of support really doesn't change anything. You'd use a build/deploy script either way, wouldn't you? [1] https://plus.google.com/u/0/114943499066504644906/posts/WXNLUoX95Ri https://plus.google.com/u/0/114943499066504644906/posts/WXNL...
michaelwww 14y ago
Another interesting one is https://github.com/dart-lang/web-ui https://github.com/dart-lang/web-ui
lvivski 14y ago
Well, Start uses another project called Hart [1] template engine that has syntax similar to Slim or Jade. And I'm going to include Gloss [2] there too, it's a CSS preprocessor, but it's not stable yet. [1] http://github.com/lvivski/hart http://github.com/lvivski/hart [2] http://github.com/lvivski/gloss http://github.com/lvivski/gloss
mythz 14y ago
I've also created a lightweight Express-inspired framework at: https://github.com/Dartist/Express https://github.com/Dartist/Express Since Dart lacks the ability to extend built-in types using something like extension methods, categories or refinements as seen in other languages I think exposing a user-controlled class is the way to go as it lets you expose a framework-focused, value-added, user-facing DRY API.
- Daegalus 14y ago
  I went a much similar route with my lightweight express-inspried framework. I made user-controlled classes that get populated with relevant data and middleware information. Like stuff from form parsing. https://github.com/Daegalus/fukiya https://github.com/Daegalus/fukiya
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
sethladd 14y ago
[disclaimer, I work on the Dart project] You might be interested in checking out http://pub.dartlang.org http://pub.dartlang.org which is our repository of Dart packages. Meanwhile, we're still in beta, so I hope to see more projects when we hit 1.0.

andyl 14y ago

Dart is Google's attempt to kill off another OpenWeb technology. This time their sights are trained on Javascript. Dart : Javascript :: Reader : RSS

lvivski 14y ago
Dart is a language and a platform behind it. It's really easy do develop advanced applications in Dart and then translate them to javascript. But you are also able to run it in a separate VM.
Inufu 14y ago
Not really. Dart and Javascript are both languages, while Reader is an application that uses RSS. Having spoken with one of the people who works on Dart, the idea is not to kill an open standard (why would Google do that?), but rather to fix the horrible mess that is Javascript. Same thing for the shutdown of Reader - how does that prevent you from using any other RSS reader?
- andyl 14y ago
  -> the idea is not to kill an open standard (why would Google do that?) Controlling the language gives you unique power over the whole ecosystem. Google gets to decide what is permissible, and what is not. Google is tearing out their OpenWeb support and building walled gardens. The more Dart becomes popular, the more we become locked in to Google, and the more our options and possibilities are constrained.
  - michaelwww 14y ago
    By your logic, Linux users are locked into a walled garden Linus Torvalds created. If Dart becomes popular, there's nothing stopping Mozilla and Microsoft from creating a Dart Compiler and VM. It's encouraged in fact. JavaScript will continue to be the target language of many transpilers such as Clojure and CoffeeScript. People will use whatever tool suits their needs.
    - 14y ago

mapleoin 14y ago

Loving the test suite.

lvivski 14y ago
:) well I have no test for now, but there will be test for route parsing and other stuff.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]