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"Actually, what I meant by gross was just the idea of these guys sitting around making innuendo within earshot of a public audience. Not the specific joke, do w

"Actually, what I meant by gross was just the idea of these guys sitting around making innuendo within earshot of a public audience. Not the specific joke, do we even know what it was?" I guess you should read about the issue you are arguing about? "In front of a random audience," I mean come on, it's not like they were on stage. Maybe they were a little inconsiderate, I've said maybe kind of offensive things and then realized people around me could hear. You probably have too. But it's like the secret police and you can't slip up anymore I guess. And what I meant is that gross is pretty subjective, so I don't go around rejecting people who I feel are "gross" or who do "gross" things. Misogyny is a terrible problem, being "gross" is just a social issue that I should let people know about. This whole conversation just underlines to me that this is social bullying masquerading as feminism or "professionalism." IT is a hugely diverse field. When I worked in academia it was an environment where I could not have the jokey environment you might have at a small startup, so that's also something to be mindful of.

jessedhillon 14y ago
AFAICT this is all we got, from a primary source, about the joke: "began making sexual forking jokes" That doesn't tell me what the joke was, it could have been anything. The rest of your comment is hyperbole and straw man. Secret police? Gimme a break, they're walking ads for their company and they agreed to a code of conduct before attending. It's pretty unreasonable to say that you need a second chance to act like a jackass in that situation -- if you didn't know better, you should have. This whole conversation just underlines to me that this is social bullying masquerading as feminism or "professionalism." Sure. That's a way more reasonable conclusion than "I have to show a little caution and discretion when talking within earshot of an audience whose boundaries and sensibilities are not completely known to me." No. You're totally being bullied by people who expect you to have a little basic courtesy in mixed company.
- katbyte 14y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 > While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes were made about forking. My friends and I had decided forking someone's repo is a new form of flattery (the highest form being implementation) and we were excited about one of the presenters projects; a friend said "I would fork that guys repo" The sexual context was applied by Adria, and not us. Straight from a primary source, who all in all seems to be taking this like a champ. >No. You're totally being bullied by people who expect you to have a little basic courtesy in mixed company. It was bullying. Plain and simple. She could have informed the conference staff and left it at that. But she didn't, she took it to the internet and bullied them there and someone lost a job. if that's not bullying then i don't know what is. >they're walking ads for their company and they agreed to a code of conduct before attending. and so did she, and she broke that code by posting online and publicly shaming them. If he deserved to be fired, she does even more so.
  - jessedhillon 14y ago
    a) Fine, we have a second opinion on what was said. That was not even my point -- it was that it doesn't matter what the specific joke was, whether about dongles or forking (who cares?) the point is that it was lewd and public. b) if that's not bullying then i don't know what is. Well first, she didn't fire them, their employers did. Presumably after an investigation or at least an interview with the offending employee -- where he would have had a chance to say, "no I didn't make a crude joke in public, while among mixed company and acting as a representative of our organization." If, in fact, that was the truth. But no, the truth is that his behavior is exactly described thus. Second, is this hyperbole? You don't know what bullying is if it's not someone tweeting out a picture and describing offending behavior which actually took place? There are many examples of actual bullying, and the consequences are much more severe than a meeting with an HR rep. c) If he deserved to be fired, she does even more so. Totally irrelevant, even if it's true. Go complain to SendGrid and PyCon about how Adria Richards' behavior offended you. People don't always get what they deserve -- that doesn't mean that the people who do get what they deserve are being betrayed.

jessedhillon 14y ago

AFAICT this is all we got, from a primary source, about the joke: "began making sexual forking jokes" That doesn't tell me what the joke was, it could have been anything. The rest of your comment is hyperbole and straw man. Secret police? Gimme a break, they're walking ads for their company and they agreed to a code of conduct before attending. It's pretty unreasonable to say that you need a second chance to act like a jackass in that situation -- if you didn't know better, you should have. This whole conversation just underlines to me that this is social bullying masquerading as feminism or "professionalism." Sure. That's a way more reasonable conclusion than "I have to show a little caution and discretion when talking within earshot of an audience whose boundaries and sensibilities are not completely known to me." No. You're totally being bullied by people who expect you to have a little basic courtesy in mixed company.

katbyte 14y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 > While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes were made about forking. My friends and I had decided forking someone's repo is a new form of flattery (the highest form being implementation) and we were excited about one of the presenters projects; a friend said "I would fork that guys repo" The sexual context was applied by Adria, and not us. Straight from a primary source, who all in all seems to be taking this like a champ. >No. You're totally being bullied by people who expect you to have a little basic courtesy in mixed company. It was bullying. Plain and simple. She could have informed the conference staff and left it at that. But she didn't, she took it to the internet and bullied them there and someone lost a job. if that's not bullying then i don't know what is. >they're walking ads for their company and they agreed to a code of conduct before attending. and so did she, and she broke that code by posting online and publicly shaming them. If he deserved to be fired, she does even more so.
- jessedhillon 14y ago
  a) Fine, we have a second opinion on what was said. That was not even my point -- it was that it doesn't matter what the specific joke was, whether about dongles or forking (who cares?) the point is that it was lewd and public. b) if that's not bullying then i don't know what is. Well first, she didn't fire them, their employers did. Presumably after an investigation or at least an interview with the offending employee -- where he would have had a chance to say, "no I didn't make a crude joke in public, while among mixed company and acting as a representative of our organization." If, in fact, that was the truth. But no, the truth is that his behavior is exactly described thus. Second, is this hyperbole? You don't know what bullying is if it's not someone tweeting out a picture and describing offending behavior which actually took place? There are many examples of actual bullying, and the consequences are much more severe than a meeting with an HR rep. c) If he deserved to be fired, she does even more so. Totally irrelevant, even if it's true. Go complain to SendGrid and PyCon about how Adria Richards' behavior offended you. People don't always get what they deserve -- that doesn't mean that the people who do get what they deserve are being betrayed.