4 ms·

While I don't completely agree with every nuance of what you present, I am impressed with your ability to understand and articulate the complexities of the situ

by reeses 14y ago

While I don't completely agree with every nuance of what you present, I am impressed with your ability to understand and articulate the complexities of the situation. "PyCon has codes of conduct, and procedures in place if those are not followed. Some jerks weren't behaving appropriately, it was settled in a fair and appropriate manner - everyone wins!" This is the core of what happened. PyCon issued a statement saying that the guys apologized and were not removed from the conference. This is the way to correct this sort of action. Remind people that they are behaving inappropriately and give them the chance to respond and, if appropriate, acknowledge their mistake and apologize. Assume they are decent people who made a minor error in judgment. Adria could have handled her side anonymously without reducing the impact of her message. That said, I'm going to assume as well that she's a decent person who made a minor error in judgment as well.

thejsjunky 14y ago
> This is the core of what happened. The problem is it's not the entirety of what happened. We can't use this as an example of the "PyCon system" working, because it's not that - it's some other system where people complain publicly and then PyCon responds - hopefully not purely out of shame (I have absolute faith in the PyCon people and their absolute earnestness, it's just that the ambiguity is there regardless). Likewise the actual outcome overall is not fair or satisfying for anyone in my opinion. Some guys were publicly shamed needlessly, Adria gets a backlash instead of focus on a real issue, and we get a bunch of heated discussions with large unproductive sections. I suppose it's not terribly productive to say "well this didn't work out well", but I'm hoping we can all make sure we avoid something like this next time. > While I don't completely agree with every nuance of what you present, I am impressed with your ability to understand and articulate the complexities of the situation. Thank you. I'd be curious if you cared to share some of the points you disagree with.
- reeses 14y ago
  "The focus on women as opposed to creating an appropriate environment for EVERYONE is a little disappointed." This is one of the "nuances" where I wasn't completely in accord with you. I agree that it would have been better (and made her seem less opportunistic and attention-seeking) if she had made the point that this kind of behavior was unproductive for everyone, whether straight white nerd man-boys, children, women, etc. However, I think that focusing on the female aspect is legitimate as her personal view.
  - thejsjunky 14y ago
    That's fair.

by reeses 14y ago

thejsjunky 14y ago

> This is the core of what happened. The problem is it's not the entirety of what happened. We can't use this as an example of the "PyCon system" working, because it's not that - it's some other system where people complain publicly and then PyCon responds - hopefully not purely out of shame (I have absolute faith in the PyCon people and their absolute earnestness, it's just that the ambiguity is there regardless). Likewise the actual outcome overall is not fair or satisfying for anyone in my opinion. Some guys were publicly shamed needlessly, Adria gets a backlash instead of focus on a real issue, and we get a bunch of heated discussions with large unproductive sections. I suppose it's not terribly productive to say "well this didn't work out well", but I'm hoping we can all make sure we avoid something like this next time. > While I don't completely agree with every nuance of what you present, I am impressed with your ability to understand and articulate the complexities of the situation. Thank you. I'd be curious if you cared to share some of the points you disagree with.

reeses 14y ago
"The focus on women as opposed to creating an appropriate environment for EVERYONE is a little disappointed." This is one of the "nuances" where I wasn't completely in accord with you. I agree that it would have been better (and made her seem less opportunistic and attention-seeking) if she had made the point that this kind of behavior was unproductive for everyone, whether straight white nerd man-boys, children, women, etc. However, I think that focusing on the female aspect is legitimate as her personal view.
- thejsjunky 14y ago
  That's fair.