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What is indecent is that Adria Richards completely invented the bit about forking being a sexual reference ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https:

What is indecent is that Adria Richards completely invented the bit about forking being a sexual reference ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 ), escalated her discomfort to the level of internet drama, got her employer SendGrid to support her, and didn't exactly go out of her way to petition PlayHaven to unfire one of the two guys involved. And she's now sticking to her guns even after profusive apologies from the offenders. All she had to do was turn around and ask the guys to stop making sex jokes. This will blow over, the guy will get a new job, but my god, it's a pretty serious defect if an immature joke about penises overheard in public can get you fired. The best thing to do is let SendGrid and PlayHaven know your thoughts: http://sendgrid.com/contact.html http://sendgrid.com/contact.html http://www.playhaven.com/contact http://www.playhaven.com/contact The only hope I have for a positive outcome here is for either company to step in and try to clean up the mess. If they don't, I'd recommend avoiding both of them. Someone that stands up for public humiliation is not somebody you want to work with. Related submissions about this story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5391667 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5391667 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5399065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5399065

rdtsc 14y ago
The outcome I'd want to see is for both companies and Adria Richards to apologize. I would want him to be offered his job back (but I hope he gets better offers and I wouldn't be shocked if he hasn't already. I would certainly call him up for an interview). If public humiliation is the new modus operandi, then it seems it is a double edged sword. I think her reputation is forever tarnished. Maybe she had good intentions (but the more I look at the situation, and her penis reference later, less likely it seems) but her execution and decision making cost a father of 3 kids to lose his job, and his face is all over Twitter. She was a no-name before this. I had never heard of her. Have you? Now she at the top of everyone's lips. She does talking engagements and advocacy. Well you connect the dots yourself.
- vilda 14y ago
  My impression is that Adria Richards is not that kind of a person to apologize.
  - katbyte 14y ago
    mine to, i also get the impression she is one to overreact and then justify her actions later.
    - crooy 14y ago
      Come on, she's a women... it is in her nature to overreact :-)
      - tankenmate 14y ago
        This, unlike the statements made by the two gentlemen at PyCon, is plainly sexism...
        rdtsc 14y ago
        Agreed, I flagged it.
        crooy 14y ago
        You have to appreciate the irony of punishing my sexist joke in this specific thread. (I do anyway)
        alttab 14y ago
        Its not irony because the incident discussed here isn't sexism, its attention whoring. What you said was blatant.
        gngeal 14y ago
        Well, to be honest, I hope that the fight for feminism hasn't gone so far as to mandate that "there are no psychological and behavioral differences between men and women at all" be taught as The One Truth.
- jrs235 14y ago
  Agreed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5414269 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5414269
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
darkarmani 14y ago
I'm waiting for the T-shirts about Forking and dongles to come out. This is going to be a meme now. Also, April 1st is around the corner. It would be classic if github removed the "fork" button in response to it being offensive.
- icoloma 14y ago
  The repo they use for demos at GitHub says something like "fork? fork you!"
mcherm 14y ago
You write: > All she had to do was turn around and ask the guys to stop making sex jokes. But I think one of the important points here is that women should not NEED to turn around and ask the guys to stop making sex jokes. The need to ask (or resign oneself to putting up with the hostile environment) is itself a burden. Would it be acceptable to make "dumb nigger" jokes as long as anytime an African American asks you to stop you stop making the jokes while they're in the room? I am not arguing that they WERE making sex jokes, or that it rose to the level of a firing offense, just that "she could have asked us to stop" is not a good argument. In fact, they WERE asked to stop (or rather, not to start), by the organizers of PyCon before the conference ever started. That is exactly what PyCon's non-harassment policy is about.
- tankenmate 14y ago
  As stated by others, sex jokes are not necessarily sexist jokes.
- euccastro 14y ago
  Sex jokes are not hate speech.
- doktrin 14y ago
  > I am not arguing that they WERE making sex jokes, or that it rose to the level of a firing offense, just that "she could have asked us to stop" is not a good argument. What was the appropriate response, then? I honestly think assertive and honest feedback is often the most effective way to curb unwanted behavior. > But I think one of the important points here is that women should not NEED to turn around and ask the guys to stop making sex jokes. Most of the time they don't. We're talking about exception handling, here. Just because a situation is less than ideal (i.e. two guys making phallic jokes at a conference) does not automatically validate a DEFCON 4 response.
  - bird_in_hand 14y ago
    Tweeting a picture isn't a DEFCON 4 response. I don't really think that it's that problematic- they were breaking the rules of the conference that they had agreed to, and calling someone out publicly is a very common method of enforcing social norms. It's not necessarily the most nuanced or feel-good method, but it's not like they had an expectation of privacy while in a crowded convention room. The overreaction here came from the guy's company, and we really don't know the whole story there.
wotwot 14y ago
She should really evaluate her career trajectory in the light of this incident. Drama queens don't make good PR candidates.

rdtsc 14y ago

The outcome I'd want to see is for both companies and Adria Richards to apologize. I would want him to be offered his job back (but I hope he gets better offers and I wouldn't be shocked if he hasn't already. I would certainly call him up for an interview). If public humiliation is the new modus operandi, then it seems it is a double edged sword. I think her reputation is forever tarnished. Maybe she had good intentions (but the more I look at the situation, and her penis reference later, less likely it seems) but her execution and decision making cost a father of 3 kids to lose his job, and his face is all over Twitter. She was a no-name before this. I had never heard of her. Have you? Now she at the top of everyone's lips. She does talking engagements and advocacy. Well you connect the dots yourself.

vilda 14y ago
My impression is that Adria Richards is not that kind of a person to apologize.
- katbyte 14y ago
  mine to, i also get the impression she is one to overreact and then justify her actions later.
  - crooy 14y ago
    Come on, she's a women... it is in her nature to overreact :-)
    - tankenmate 14y ago
      This, unlike the statements made by the two gentlemen at PyCon, is plainly sexism...
      - rdtsc 14y ago
        Agreed, I flagged it.
      - crooy 14y ago
        You have to appreciate the irony of punishing my sexist joke in this specific thread. (I do anyway)
        alttab 14y ago
        Its not irony because the incident discussed here isn't sexism, its attention whoring. What you said was blatant.
      - gngeal 14y ago
        Well, to be honest, I hope that the fight for feminism hasn't gone so far as to mandate that "there are no psychological and behavioral differences between men and women at all" be taught as The One Truth.
jrs235 14y ago
Agreed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5414269 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5414269

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

darkarmani 14y ago

I'm waiting for the T-shirts about Forking and dongles to come out. This is going to be a meme now. Also, April 1st is around the corner. It would be classic if github removed the "fork" button in response to it being offensive.

icoloma 14y ago
The repo they use for demos at GitHub says something like "fork? fork you!"

mcherm 14y ago

You write: > All she had to do was turn around and ask the guys to stop making sex jokes. But I think one of the important points here is that women should not NEED to turn around and ask the guys to stop making sex jokes. The need to ask (or resign oneself to putting up with the hostile environment) is itself a burden. Would it be acceptable to make "dumb nigger" jokes as long as anytime an African American asks you to stop you stop making the jokes while they're in the room? I am not arguing that they WERE making sex jokes, or that it rose to the level of a firing offense, just that "she could have asked us to stop" is not a good argument. In fact, they WERE asked to stop (or rather, not to start), by the organizers of PyCon before the conference ever started. That is exactly what PyCon's non-harassment policy is about.

tankenmate 14y ago
As stated by others, sex jokes are not necessarily sexist jokes.
euccastro 14y ago
Sex jokes are not hate speech.
doktrin 14y ago
> I am not arguing that they WERE making sex jokes, or that it rose to the level of a firing offense, just that "she could have asked us to stop" is not a good argument. What was the appropriate response, then? I honestly think assertive and honest feedback is often the most effective way to curb unwanted behavior. > But I think one of the important points here is that women should not NEED to turn around and ask the guys to stop making sex jokes. Most of the time they don't. We're talking about exception handling, here. Just because a situation is less than ideal (i.e. two guys making phallic jokes at a conference) does not automatically validate a DEFCON 4 response.
- bird_in_hand 14y ago
  Tweeting a picture isn't a DEFCON 4 response. I don't really think that it's that problematic- they were breaking the rules of the conference that they had agreed to, and calling someone out publicly is a very common method of enforcing social norms. It's not necessarily the most nuanced or feel-good method, but it's not like they had an expectation of privacy while in a crowded convention room. The overreaction here came from the guy's company, and we really don't know the whole story there.

wotwot 14y ago

She should really evaluate her career trajectory in the light of this incident. Drama queens don't make good PR candidates.