4 ms·

> If you happen to work in California, you should know that this kind of remark, if repeated and unwelcome, would constitute harassment. True, but unwelcome is

> If you happen to work in California, you should know that this kind of remark, if repeated and unwelcome, would constitute harassment. True, but unwelcome is key. How do you know if a remark is unwelcome? Someone tells you so -- either the offended or HR (whom the offended told). They don't post it on Twitter or blog about it, they talk about it with people in a position to correct the problem. I know plenty of women who wouldn't feel the least bit offended by a dongle joke -- point being, you can't say "well there's a woman in earshot, better turn on the woman filter." Personally I believe you should make an honest effort to behave professionally, especially in the presence of folks you don't know, but different folks have different yardsticks for this. That's why you communicate.

shuzchen 14y ago
I think you had to be there. This year (and last year as well), there was a ton of messaging from the organizers/presenters/leaders regarding the past/future efforts to bring more women into the python community. They were really proud that 20% of attendees were female (that was on a keynote slide), Guido wore a "python is for girls" shirt (as he did last year), the Pyladies organization sponsored a ton of events (pycon after party, a mani-pedi get-together, auction [1]), there were at least 4 groups with a booth in the vendors section with the goal to include more women (pyladies, ladycoders, ada initiative, some other one I forget). I mean, it's not a black and white issue and I concede that those remarks will be taken different depending on the situation. However, in this situation where everyone is celebrating the progress that's been made (and knows how much more still needs to be done), such remarks are IMO totally inappropriate. 1: Technically, the auction was supporting the pyladies group, I don't know if they ran/sponsored it, but it was all for their benefit.
- Domenic_S 14y ago
  I think I see where you're coming from, but "totally inappropriate" seems excessive to me.
  - shuzchen 14y ago
    Maybe that's just semantics with my choice of words. To clarify, I disagree with anyone that says they were entirely in the right to be making whatever jokes they made during that time and place, and I believe the gal was right to be offended and to bring it up with the pycon staff (but that doesn't apply to how she did it and her subsequent activity). That said, I don't understand how this snowballed into people getting fired from their jobs. What they did was wrong, but things really got blown out of proportion, and we the internet haven't been helping. The story should have ended with the stern talking to by the pycon staff.

shuzchen 14y ago

I think you had to be there. This year (and last year as well), there was a ton of messaging from the organizers/presenters/leaders regarding the past/future efforts to bring more women into the python community. They were really proud that 20% of attendees were female (that was on a keynote slide), Guido wore a "python is for girls" shirt (as he did last year), the Pyladies organization sponsored a ton of events (pycon after party, a mani-pedi get-together, auction [1]), there were at least 4 groups with a booth in the vendors section with the goal to include more women (pyladies, ladycoders, ada initiative, some other one I forget). I mean, it's not a black and white issue and I concede that those remarks will be taken different depending on the situation. However, in this situation where everyone is celebrating the progress that's been made (and knows how much more still needs to be done), such remarks are IMO totally inappropriate. 1: Technically, the auction was supporting the pyladies group, I don't know if they ran/sponsored it, but it was all for their benefit.

Domenic_S 14y ago
I think I see where you're coming from, but "totally inappropriate" seems excessive to me.
- shuzchen 14y ago
  Maybe that's just semantics with my choice of words. To clarify, I disagree with anyone that says they were entirely in the right to be making whatever jokes they made during that time and place, and I believe the gal was right to be offended and to bring it up with the pycon staff (but that doesn't apply to how she did it and her subsequent activity). That said, I don't understand how this snowballed into people getting fired from their jobs. What they did was wrong, but things really got blown out of proportion, and we the internet haven't been helping. The story should have ended with the stern talking to by the pycon staff.