4 ms·

Adria did not initially raise this as a "sexism" issue from what I can see -- just something the made her uncomfortable.

pizzeys 14y ago
She didn't use the exact word 'sexism', but her blog post very much made it out to be a sexism issue.
- shardling 14y ago
  Did she? I just read the entire post, and I disagree. http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/ http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont... It certainly exists within the context of gender issues at a tech conference, but she didn't even go so far as to label the jokes sexist -- just something that would make some women uncomfortable. (Which is obviously true, given her response!)
  - ensignavenger 14y ago
    Yes, she did- "this wasn't the first time that day I had to address this issue around harassment and gender." She clearly states in her blog she felt it involved "harassment and gender", which is often referred to as sexism.
    - vacri 14y ago
      She also projects her own fantasy onto a little girl, apropos of nothing, already proclaiming the girls career in tech dead in the water. She did the right thing by notifying conference staff and letting them handle it. She did the wrong thing by naming and shaming on twitter. The blog post reads like a mix of real event and revisionism to stem angry internetters. Still, it's a storm in a teacup - who's to say the same guy wasn't on the verge of being let go for other reasons anyway? It's presumptuous to assuming his firing was solely because of this single event.
  - geekam 14y ago
    I think there are tougher but better ways to deal with the issue (like facing the two men) than to hide behind your twitter followers.
    - shardling 14y ago
      She "hid" by directly notifying the conference organizers through twitter. You can make the claim that it shouldn't have been done in public; you can't exactly also argue that she was hiding.
      - MikeAmelung 14y ago
        She was hiding in real life, while being a "badass" on the internet. I think I'm going to open a bait shop myself, and call it "Big Dongles."
        pyre 14y ago
        So, people that are uncomfortable with direct confrontation are only allowed to 'sit down and shut up?'
        geekam 14y ago
        No. Instead of posting someone's photo (and other's along with that) on the web confront them. If they do not apologize or shut up in shame, move to authorities. Authorities at Pycon did help her, didn't they?
        pyre 14y ago
        | Instead of posting someone's photo (and other's | along with that) on the web confront them Your plan of action for someone "uncomfortable with direct confrontation" is to "confront them." Logic! [ She should have just gone to (or messaged) the PyCon staff first to resolve the situation. ]
        geekam 14y ago
walshemj 14y ago
well a few years ago a team member said "oh I cant go to a social event with the team" as he was upper caste. I did not raise a fuss and get him fired - though we where all shocked.
rdl 14y ago
This makes me uncomfortable: https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 "Adria: you should put something in your pants next time .. like a bunch of socks inside one...large...sock. TSA agent faint." So apparently it's ok to be sexual/hostile in someone else's work environment, just not your own?
- shardling 14y ago
  Your link is (was) 404. Anyway, I frankly don't give a damn whether Adria is a good person or not. People are criticizing her for a specific set of actions that don't seem to be in line with what actually happened. It exposes a lot of sloppy, biased thinking that is the real problem here. :(
  - katbyte 14y ago
    I think the majority of criticism is that she escalated things so rapidly to publicly shaming people who didn't deserve it costing a man his job over a silly dick joke that that majority of women wouldn't have batted an eye over. If she didn't publicly identify him, no one would have cared. If she had simply notified the conference staff, no one would have cared. She took it to extremes, and now the internet is responding in kind.
    - frankblizzard 14y ago
      the question is what is worse - making an inmature dick joke or uploading a picture of someone and expose and discredit him publicly to thousands of people. I think with that action she did herself and her company a disservice. maybe taking the feminism thing too serious? https://securecdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/457/3099/original.jpg https://securecdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/457/3...
    - mcherm 14y ago
      Adria did NOT fire this man. As far as I can tell, she never ran a campaign to get him fired. What she did was to report what occurred, including the names of those involved. If your local newspaper ran an article exposing a scandal, and the participants in the scandal got in trouble because it came to light, would you blame the newspaper? If this was a minor offense that no one should have cared about, then reporting it is fine -- there's no harm done. If this was a major issue that justifies strong reactions, then reporting it is fine -- justice is served. I fear that the real position is "My employer thinks this is a major issue worth firing over, but I want to keep doing it anyway so you have an obligation to keep this under wraps for me." and I do not think that is a defensible position to take.
ensignavenger 14y ago
She clearly states on her blog that "this wasn't the first time that day I had to address this issue around harassment and gender." Generally speaking, I think "harassment and gender" going together make it fit the definition of sexism. Regardless, she does classify it as "harassment".

pizzeys 14y ago

She didn't use the exact word 'sexism', but her blog post very much made it out to be a sexism issue.

shardling 14y ago
Did she? I just read the entire post, and I disagree. http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/ http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont... It certainly exists within the context of gender issues at a tech conference, but she didn't even go so far as to label the jokes sexist -- just something that would make some women uncomfortable. (Which is obviously true, given her response!)
- ensignavenger 14y ago
  Yes, she did- "this wasn't the first time that day I had to address this issue around harassment and gender." She clearly states in her blog she felt it involved "harassment and gender", which is often referred to as sexism.
  - vacri 14y ago
    She also projects her own fantasy onto a little girl, apropos of nothing, already proclaiming the girls career in tech dead in the water. She did the right thing by notifying conference staff and letting them handle it. She did the wrong thing by naming and shaming on twitter. The blog post reads like a mix of real event and revisionism to stem angry internetters. Still, it's a storm in a teacup - who's to say the same guy wasn't on the verge of being let go for other reasons anyway? It's presumptuous to assuming his firing was solely because of this single event.
- geekam 14y ago
  I think there are tougher but better ways to deal with the issue (like facing the two men) than to hide behind your twitter followers.
  - shardling 14y ago
    She "hid" by directly notifying the conference organizers through twitter. You can make the claim that it shouldn't have been done in public; you can't exactly also argue that she was hiding.
    - MikeAmelung 14y ago
      She was hiding in real life, while being a "badass" on the internet. I think I'm going to open a bait shop myself, and call it "Big Dongles."
      - pyre 14y ago
        So, people that are uncomfortable with direct confrontation are only allowed to 'sit down and shut up?'
        geekam 14y ago
        No. Instead of posting someone's photo (and other's along with that) on the web confront them. If they do not apologize or shut up in shame, move to authorities. Authorities at Pycon did help her, didn't they?
        pyre 14y ago
        | Instead of posting someone's photo (and other's | along with that) on the web confront them Your plan of action for someone "uncomfortable with direct confrontation" is to "confront them." Logic! [ She should have just gone to (or messaged) the PyCon staff first to resolve the situation. ]
        geekam 14y ago

walshemj 14y ago

well a few years ago a team member said "oh I cant go to a social event with the team" as he was upper caste. I did not raise a fuss and get him fired - though we where all shocked.

rdl 14y ago

This makes me uncomfortable: https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 "Adria: you should put something in your pants next time .. like a bunch of socks inside one...large...sock. TSA agent faint." So apparently it's ok to be sexual/hostile in someone else's work environment, just not your own?

shardling 14y ago
Your link is (was) 404. Anyway, I frankly don't give a damn whether Adria is a good person or not. People are criticizing her for a specific set of actions that don't seem to be in line with what actually happened. It exposes a lot of sloppy, biased thinking that is the real problem here. :(
- katbyte 14y ago
  I think the majority of criticism is that she escalated things so rapidly to publicly shaming people who didn't deserve it costing a man his job over a silly dick joke that that majority of women wouldn't have batted an eye over. If she didn't publicly identify him, no one would have cared. If she had simply notified the conference staff, no one would have cared. She took it to extremes, and now the internet is responding in kind.
  - frankblizzard 14y ago
    the question is what is worse - making an inmature dick joke or uploading a picture of someone and expose and discredit him publicly to thousands of people. I think with that action she did herself and her company a disservice. maybe taking the feminism thing too serious? https://securecdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/457/3099/original.jpg https://securecdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/457/3...
  - mcherm 14y ago
    Adria did NOT fire this man. As far as I can tell, she never ran a campaign to get him fired. What she did was to report what occurred, including the names of those involved. If your local newspaper ran an article exposing a scandal, and the participants in the scandal got in trouble because it came to light, would you blame the newspaper? If this was a minor offense that no one should have cared about, then reporting it is fine -- there's no harm done. If this was a major issue that justifies strong reactions, then reporting it is fine -- justice is served. I fear that the real position is "My employer thinks this is a major issue worth firing over, but I want to keep doing it anyway so you have an obligation to keep this under wraps for me." and I do not think that is a defensible position to take.

ensignavenger 14y ago

She clearly states on her blog that "this wasn't the first time that day I had to address this issue around harassment and gender." Generally speaking, I think "harassment and gender" going together make it fit the definition of sexism. Regardless, she does classify it as "harassment".