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So, just to be clear, you are boycotting a company that employees someone who upholds the code of conduct agreed to by all attendees of pycon, but make no menti

So, just to be clear, you are boycotting a company that employees someone who upholds the code of conduct agreed to by all attendees of pycon, but make no mention of the company that actually fired the guy. Gotcha.

josh-j 14y ago
It's a sane move if you want to discourage the culture that Adria is encouraging. Certainly her employers don't deserve any blame, though.
- jasonlotito 14y ago
  What culture is that? * Calling people out who violate PyCon's code of conduct? * Following this up by going to PyCon and getting it resolved? (http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropriate.html http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop...) Are we really arguing that people should keep silent when things like this happen? When a rule is violated? That they should only respond after it's taken place? Is that what people are really asking for?
  - josh-j 14y ago
    I don't think assuming or mentioning negative talking points in the form of a question is a productive way to have a discussion.
    - jasonlotito 14y ago
      So then what culture is she encouraging? * Calling people out who violate PyCon's code of conduct * Following this up by going to PyCon and getting it resolved Those are the two things she did. Call people out who broke a rule. She also went to PyCon organizers to resolve it. So, what culture is she encouraging, and why would we want to discourage it?
      - Domenic_S 14y ago
        She's encouraging an internet lynch mob, and that's a culture most communities actively discourage.
        rmrfrmrf 14y ago
        She @-replied pycon staff. Compare that to the HN and Reddit communities out for Adria's head.
        corresation 14y ago
        Her initial response was a twitter message with the pycon hashtag and a picture of the "culprits". It was demanding a lynch mob resolution. She never directly replied to or messaged pycon staff, though she had the wherewithal to search up the code of conduct.
        jasonlotito 14y ago
        Oh shit. She didn't file the HA-RASS-401A form. She deserves everything she got. > She never directly replied to or messaged pycon staff That's not true. At all.
        corresation 14y ago
        She didn't file the HA-RASS-401A form. She deserves everything she got. What did she "get"? If you do something publicly, you are open for public criticism. That's life. However few would debate that it is utter hubris to use social media to demand a lynchmob response to a relatively mild social faux pas (which is 100% bullying behavior. Ala "I have 9000 twitter followers so you'll see who is the boss"). I don't blame her for the guy getting fired (that's on his shitty employer that knee jerk responds to something asinine), nor should anyone else, but I think the original activities were much more egregious and socially questionable than making a dongle joke.
      - josh-j 14y ago
  - katbyte 14y ago
    no one is arguing about that, it seems to be more the culture of publicly shaming people for things that are well below the level of what should be.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- djcapelis 14y ago
  > Certainly her employers don't deserve any blame, though To be clear, SendGrid is her employer and that's exactly who sergiotapia sent an e-mail to saying he was going to boycott and recommended that others do the same.
  - josh-j 14y ago
    I'm clear on that. This whole issue is deeply entwined with philosophy which makes it all a bit amorphous. From one perspective, you could argue that it's moral to boycott SendGrid if it leads to "positive" consequences, for example.
- rmrfrmrf 14y ago
  "We're not choosing your company because we believe in the right for men to tell dick jokes." I'd quickly e-mail back: "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."
moistgorilla 14y ago
It has nothing to do with the code of conduct considering that very code says that you are not supposed to take a picture of someone without their express permission.
- jasonlotito 14y ago
  https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/ https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/ Where does it say anything about someone's expressed permission? Doing a search on the page for several words did not bring up anything remotely close. Permission isn't even used.
  - _ak 14y ago
    "harassing photography or recording"
    - jasonlotito 14y ago
      I read that part, which says nothing about what the person above me was saying. This is the statement being contested: > that very code says that you are not supposed to take a picture of someone without their express permission. So, unless you can produce something that says this, it's a lie. As for this: > harassing photography or recording It didn't happen.
      - _ak 14y ago
        well, the photos that Adria took were taken to publicly shame (which can be considered a form of harassment) the two people, so yes, that definitely did happen.
corresation 14y ago
There is a dramatic difference between twitter hysterics and unleashing a lynch mob (and a woman under duress is a dangerous weapon to unleash on the intertubes), and direct messaging responsible parties. Had she messaged pycon (if she wasn't willing to simply ask them to shut up) this would be a non-story. But, as many suspect, she had to take the opportunity to be the hero of the story to save that little girl on the stage, unless of course that little girl on the stage says something that might be construed as offensive in the future, losing their job and reputation as a result.
flyosity 14y ago
Actually, she broke the code as well by taking someone's photo without their consent.
- jacalata 14y ago
  I've seen a lot of people say this, but I can't find a reference to it in the code of conduct here: https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/ https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/. Is there a longer version or different version somewhere, or am I just missing it?

josh-j 14y ago

It's a sane move if you want to discourage the culture that Adria is encouraging. Certainly her employers don't deserve any blame, though.

jasonlotito 14y ago
What culture is that? * Calling people out who violate PyCon's code of conduct? * Following this up by going to PyCon and getting it resolved? (http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropriate.html http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop...) Are we really arguing that people should keep silent when things like this happen? When a rule is violated? That they should only respond after it's taken place? Is that what people are really asking for?
- josh-j 14y ago
  I don't think assuming or mentioning negative talking points in the form of a question is a productive way to have a discussion.
  - jasonlotito 14y ago
    So then what culture is she encouraging? * Calling people out who violate PyCon's code of conduct * Following this up by going to PyCon and getting it resolved Those are the two things she did. Call people out who broke a rule. She also went to PyCon organizers to resolve it. So, what culture is she encouraging, and why would we want to discourage it?
    - Domenic_S 14y ago
      She's encouraging an internet lynch mob, and that's a culture most communities actively discourage.
      - rmrfrmrf 14y ago
        She @-replied pycon staff. Compare that to the HN and Reddit communities out for Adria's head.
        corresation 14y ago
        Her initial response was a twitter message with the pycon hashtag and a picture of the "culprits". It was demanding a lynch mob resolution. She never directly replied to or messaged pycon staff, though she had the wherewithal to search up the code of conduct.
        jasonlotito 14y ago
        Oh shit. She didn't file the HA-RASS-401A form. She deserves everything she got. > She never directly replied to or messaged pycon staff That's not true. At all.
        corresation 14y ago
        She didn't file the HA-RASS-401A form. She deserves everything she got. What did she "get"? If you do something publicly, you are open for public criticism. That's life. However few would debate that it is utter hubris to use social media to demand a lynchmob response to a relatively mild social faux pas (which is 100% bullying behavior. Ala "I have 9000 twitter followers so you'll see who is the boss"). I don't blame her for the guy getting fired (that's on his shitty employer that knee jerk responds to something asinine), nor should anyone else, but I think the original activities were much more egregious and socially questionable than making a dongle joke.
    - josh-j 14y ago
- katbyte 14y ago
  no one is arguing about that, it seems to be more the culture of publicly shaming people for things that are well below the level of what should be.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
djcapelis 14y ago
> Certainly her employers don't deserve any blame, though To be clear, SendGrid is her employer and that's exactly who sergiotapia sent an e-mail to saying he was going to boycott and recommended that others do the same.
- josh-j 14y ago
  I'm clear on that. This whole issue is deeply entwined with philosophy which makes it all a bit amorphous. From one perspective, you could argue that it's moral to boycott SendGrid if it leads to "positive" consequences, for example.
rmrfrmrf 14y ago
"We're not choosing your company because we believe in the right for men to tell dick jokes." I'd quickly e-mail back: "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

moistgorilla 14y ago

It has nothing to do with the code of conduct considering that very code says that you are not supposed to take a picture of someone without their express permission.

jasonlotito 14y ago
https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/ https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/ Where does it say anything about someone's expressed permission? Doing a search on the page for several words did not bring up anything remotely close. Permission isn't even used.
- _ak 14y ago
  "harassing photography or recording"
  - jasonlotito 14y ago
    I read that part, which says nothing about what the person above me was saying. This is the statement being contested: > that very code says that you are not supposed to take a picture of someone without their express permission. So, unless you can produce something that says this, it's a lie. As for this: > harassing photography or recording It didn't happen.
    - _ak 14y ago
      well, the photos that Adria took were taken to publicly shame (which can be considered a form of harassment) the two people, so yes, that definitely did happen.

corresation 14y ago

There is a dramatic difference between twitter hysterics and unleashing a lynch mob (and a woman under duress is a dangerous weapon to unleash on the intertubes), and direct messaging responsible parties. Had she messaged pycon (if she wasn't willing to simply ask them to shut up) this would be a non-story. But, as many suspect, she had to take the opportunity to be the hero of the story to save that little girl on the stage, unless of course that little girl on the stage says something that might be construed as offensive in the future, losing their job and reputation as a result.

flyosity 14y ago

Actually, she broke the code as well by taking someone's photo without their consent.

jacalata 14y ago
I've seen a lot of people say this, but I can't find a reference to it in the code of conduct here: https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/ https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/. Is there a longer version or different version somewhere, or am I just missing it?