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I live in SF. I am immune to feeling remotely discomforted by actions/sights/conversations like that.

by rburhum 14y ago

wpietri 14y ago
I live in SF as well, and I would also probably feel safe. But that's because my lifetime risk of sexual assault is very low, and San Francisco is a pretty safe place. But if you need a different story to imagine feeling unsafe because suddenly people around you are talking about sex, I'm sure you can make one up. The point was to help Joeboy understand the feeling, not the specifics of the situation.
- Joeboy 14y ago
  I understand the feeling of being scared, but I don't understand why a joke about a dongle would provoke it. It seems to me that the level of threat from a room full of people who are not joking about dongles is exactly the same as the level of threat from a room full of people, two of whom are joking about dongles. I am obviously not arguing that it would be impossible to tell a joke with scary content, but I haven't seen an explanation as to why these jokes were scary.
  - wpietri 14y ago
    Hi! Thanks for the civilized reply. I understand you don't get it. I'm saying that's partly because you don't have a visceral fear of sexual assault. You also probably don't have much experience with unwanted sexual advances. And you've probably never been sexually harassed. You also may not have experienced being a visibly different minority in a situation where that raises your risk of unpleasantness or violence. I don't think the jokes themselves were scary. I doubt Adira did either. But sexualization of a professional environment can be scary. So we are finally starting to say that it's not allowed at tech conferences.
    - devilshaircut 14y ago
      Your invocation of some obscure situation where you would feel legitimately threatened in a sexual way has nothing to do with the reality of what happened. It's true that women can be put into sexually threatening situations. It's patently false that what happened at Pycon is an example of one.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - wpietri 14y ago
        I never said that they were. I'm trying to help Joeboy understand why sexual content can trigger legitimate fears. Note that at this very conference, there was other inappropriate stuff going on: http://ivory.idyll.org/blog/pycon-2013-and-codes-of-conduct.html http://ivory.idyll.org/blog/pycon-2013-and-codes-of-conduct.... So although I agree that Adira was in no immediate danger, I think she was right to see jokes like that as being part of an environment that alienates women and enables problematic behavior.
        Joeboy 14y ago
        > I think she was right to see jokes like that as being part of an environment that alienates women I would agree that those jokes could alienate some women and men, and therefore don't contribute to an inclusive environment. And the other stuff in the post you link to sounds crappy. I'm in favour of having a code of conduct, particularly if there's a culture of inappropriateness that needs addressing. I still think your conflation of dick jokes with sexual threat is OTT.

I live in SF. I am immune to feeling remotely discomforted by actions/sights/conversations like that.

by rburhum 14y ago

I live in SF. I am immune to feeling remotely discomforted by actions/sights/conversations like that.

I live in SF as well, and I would also probably feel safe. But that's because my lifetime risk of sexual assault is very low, and San Francisco is a pretty safe place. But if you need a different story to imagine feeling unsafe because suddenly people around you are talking about sex, I'm sure you can make one up. The point was to help Joeboy understand the feeling, not the specifics of the situation.

Joeboy 14y ago
I understand the feeling of being scared, but I don't understand why a joke about a dongle would provoke it. It seems to me that the level of threat from a room full of people who are not joking about dongles is exactly the same as the level of threat from a room full of people, two of whom are joking about dongles. I am obviously not arguing that it would be impossible to tell a joke with scary content, but I haven't seen an explanation as to why these jokes were scary.
- wpietri 14y ago
  Hi! Thanks for the civilized reply. I understand you don't get it. I'm saying that's partly because you don't have a visceral fear of sexual assault. You also probably don't have much experience with unwanted sexual advances. And you've probably never been sexually harassed. You also may not have experienced being a visibly different minority in a situation where that raises your risk of unpleasantness or violence. I don't think the jokes themselves were scary. I doubt Adira did either. But sexualization of a professional environment can be scary. So we are finally starting to say that it's not allowed at tech conferences.
  - devilshaircut 14y ago
    Your invocation of some obscure situation where you would feel legitimately threatened in a sexual way has nothing to do with the reality of what happened. It's true that women can be put into sexually threatening situations. It's patently false that what happened at Pycon is an example of one.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - wpietri 14y ago
      I never said that they were. I'm trying to help Joeboy understand why sexual content can trigger legitimate fears. Note that at this very conference, there was other inappropriate stuff going on: http://ivory.idyll.org/blog/pycon-2013-and-codes-of-conduct.html http://ivory.idyll.org/blog/pycon-2013-and-codes-of-conduct.... So although I agree that Adira was in no immediate danger, I think she was right to see jokes like that as being part of an environment that alienates women and enables problematic behavior.
      - Joeboy 14y ago
        > I think she was right to see jokes like that as being part of an environment that alienates women I would agree that those jokes could alienate some women and men, and therefore don't contribute to an inclusive environment. And the other stuff in the post you link to sounds crappy. I'm in favour of having a code of conduct, particularly if there's a culture of inappropriateness that needs addressing. I still think your conflation of dick jokes with sexual threat is OTT.