5 ms·

You mean personal conversation. Their conversation wasn't private, it was in the middle of a conference hall.

by clinth 14y ago

newnewnew 14y ago
So now we have license to police other people's conversations if we are members of a protected group?
- wpietri 14y ago
  Good news! You also can police conversations. Even when you're not a member of a protected group. That's especially true when the conference has a clear policy on the sorts of topics allowed. For example, it turns out white people don't have to just sit there when somebody's being racist. They can speak up just as much as a black person can.
  - newnewnew 14y ago
    It's kind of hard to figure out what to do. Harassment is obviously something I would speak out against. But when we define "harassment" to be whatever a minority member in earshot finds offensive things become murky. Perhaps I should constantly poll nearby women at a conference - "ma'am, has anybody said anything recently which you find offensive?" There is such a thing as unacceptable behavior. But the measure of that is not whether some member of a protected group was offended. Nobody has the right to never be offended in a public place.
    - astrec 14y ago
      Where I live conferences are considered a workplace so our strict equal opportunity and sex discrimination acts apply. Under these acts, crude conversation and jokes are considered to contribute to a hostile working environment. In the event the someone (male or female) is offended, intimidated, or humiliated they are at liberty to file a sexual harassment claim. The intent of the harasser is irrelevant. It can be a single incident or repeated behaviour and the victim is not required confront their harasser. The parties need not even be employed by the same entity. Of course these very same laws require that the claim is filed confidentially, and the kind of public shaming we've seen here is itself considered harassment. If PyCon had been held here the only party with their noses clean would the conference organisers.

You mean personal conversation. Their conversation wasn't private, it was in the middle of a conference hall.

by clinth 14y ago

You mean personal conversation. Their conversation wasn't private, it was in the middle of a conference hall.

newnewnew 14y ago

So now we have license to police other people's conversations if we are members of a protected group?

wpietri 14y ago
Good news! You also can police conversations. Even when you're not a member of a protected group. That's especially true when the conference has a clear policy on the sorts of topics allowed. For example, it turns out white people don't have to just sit there when somebody's being racist. They can speak up just as much as a black person can.
- newnewnew 14y ago
  It's kind of hard to figure out what to do. Harassment is obviously something I would speak out against. But when we define "harassment" to be whatever a minority member in earshot finds offensive things become murky. Perhaps I should constantly poll nearby women at a conference - "ma'am, has anybody said anything recently which you find offensive?" There is such a thing as unacceptable behavior. But the measure of that is not whether some member of a protected group was offended. Nobody has the right to never be offended in a public place.
  - astrec 14y ago
    Where I live conferences are considered a workplace so our strict equal opportunity and sex discrimination acts apply. Under these acts, crude conversation and jokes are considered to contribute to a hostile working environment. In the event the someone (male or female) is offended, intimidated, or humiliated they are at liberty to file a sexual harassment claim. The intent of the harasser is irrelevant. It can be a single incident or repeated behaviour and the victim is not required confront their harasser. The parties need not even be employed by the same entity. Of course these very same laws require that the claim is filed confidentially, and the kind of public shaming we've seen here is itself considered harassment. If PyCon had been held here the only party with their noses clean would the conference organisers.