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Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other? It is not like they meant to

Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other? It is not like they meant to offend somebody. I am assuming they weren't talking loudly but rather meant to converse between each other. How I talk to my buddy is no ones fucking business. How about you tell your friend of of those an American, a Russian and a German walk into a bar jokes, someone overhears it, snaps a picture and announces to his twitter following what a xenophobic asshole you are?

danilocampos 14y ago
If it were private, it wouldn't have happened with people nearby to hear it and the photo wouldn't have depicted dozens of people surrounding.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- paganel 14y ago
  So you're saying "private" is not in fact, well, "private". I grew up as a kid on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, in Eastern Europe, where as it happens walls had ears and "private" was not in fact "private". To see this stuff repeating 25 years later in the free world is scary.
  - awj 14y ago
    How on earth can you expect privacy in a conversation that people literally cannot help but overhear? This was a crowd of people in an audience either waiting for or listening to a presentation.
  - mistercow 14y ago
    Yes, that's right. A privately run conference asking attendees to behave professionally around other attendees is exactly like the KGB, and is a sure sign that we are sliding downward into totalitarianism.
    - rmrfrmrf 14y ago
      Thank you -- all of these hate-laden comments are making me lose my mind.
    - paganel 14y ago
      This is going already too far, but anyway, here it goes. First of all, during the '80s (the time when I grew up) the KGB or the Securitate (the institution that was operating in my country) had already left their "harsh" methods behind, for the most part anyway, but they were instead operating through the peer pressure of those around you (friends, neighbors, strangers on the street, even close relatives). More exactly, had you by chance happened to listen to Radio Free Europe or made negative comments about the fact that there was no meat for sale in the stores, some of those mentioned above might have just "snitched" you to the powers that be (the Securitate in my country's case). You weren't risking that much, "just" your day job (like one of the guys in this story) and probably also the roof above your kids' heads (now if you don't have a job and you can't pay mortgage/rent you're in the same situation). Like I said, maybe it didn't seem much from the outside, but it was enough. All this because someone might have overheard you say something that wasn't abiding to the rules of the time. Yes, I do find the power to speak freely a little bit scary.
      - mistercow 14y ago
        Obviously I'm not arguing that Richards behaved appropriately in publicly shaming them. I'm saying that they behaved inappropriately in making the joke in the first place, and that there's nothing scary or totalitarian about a privately run conference having a code of conduct asking people to act professionally. Of course, the proper way to handle this would have been for Richards to talk to someone running the conference. They would have then gone to the people who were making the inappropriate jokes and asked them to remember that this was a professional environment, upon which apologies would have been given, and that would have been the end of it.
    - psionski 14y ago
      Of course it is! Either you're free to say anything or you're not free at all. There's no relativism here.
- ineedtosleep 14y ago
  Exactly. If you're sitting in a restaurant eating with some acquaintances/friends, you shouldn't expect privacy there either. The table next to you can get offended with some random inside joke that includes the words "penis", "boob", or maybe even "yoga pants." No jokes allowed unless you're wrapped in a Faraday cage filled in with sound proof material. None whatsoever.
  - mistercow 14y ago
    That analogy is completely ridiculous. Restaurants are not venues that require customers to agree to a code of conduct barring inappropriate jokes. They're also not the kind of places where people are sitting quietly and near enough each other to hear jokes told quietly.
    - marshray 14y ago
      Python conventions are places where people can overhear my conversation, take pictures of me, and publicize them as personal accusations with impunity? I've been to plenty of conferences and I haven't heard of this happening, except to politicians when they forget there are microphones and news reporters around. This is why our society does, in fact, have a separate set of privacy rules for people classified as "public figures". So the rest of us can hang out and chat in comfort by assuming in all probability the absence of a news reporter or papparazi trying to play "gotcha" with a camera and microphone.
      - mistercow 14y ago
        Let's keep the threads of argument separate here. On the one hand, we have the question of whether or not that joke was acceptable in that situation, and in the ancestor comment, danilocampos was arguing that it was not. I tend to agree. Then there is the separate question of whether publicly shaming the person as Richards did was an acceptable response. I certainly do not think it was. But it's a separate issue.
        marshray 14y ago
numbsafari 14y ago
What's private about a conversation being held in a crowd?
milesskorpen 14y ago
Whether they meant to offend people is irrelevant — its pretty clear that jokes w/ sexual innuendo in a public context isn't okay. Period. Also, as others have said, this clearly wasn't a private situation. The whole problem with these jokes, even if not told directly to someone's face, is that they create a poisonous atmosphere.
- codesuela 14y ago
  >poisonous atmosphere as opposed to publicly shaming someone without prior warning?
  - raylu 14y ago
    That's bad too, but I think the original point still stands.
- flebron 14y ago
  I'm sorry, it's not clear to me. I do not think that there's something inherently sexist in sexual innuendo, or that it somehow isn't OK when among adults (and even if there's kids, they likely won't understand it - that's the beauty of innuendo).
paranoiacblack 14y ago
You're doing a bit of mental gymnastics here, especially with your last example. Obviously, you're concerned with your security and comfortability, but you're taking it out of context. Indeed, if I tell a hilarious racist joke as you've mentioned around the wrong people, it is very likely there will be a commotion that will get me removed from the setting. Even more so, the same wrong people might post it to their personal feed, announcing that you are, as you portrayed yourself, a xenophobic asshole. Now, if your boss happens to read that stream and hear that codesuela is a xenophobic asshole, they might decide to terminate you. Your argument is that it wasn't meant to offend anybody. But it did, so that's out of play. You also seem to assume that they weren't talking loudly and somehow Adria was simply eavesdropping on them, which is just speculation on your part. While I agree that how you talk to your buddy is no one's business, that doesn't mean you're now exempt from being called out because it was meant to be private.
awj 14y ago
They were sitting in an audience with over ten people inside of ten feet. It doesn't matter how private you want your conversation to be, in that kind of setting you will be overheard and should act accordingly.
jasonlotito 14y ago
> Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other? She was speaking to one of the two people. Further, judging by the description which has only been supported, it was not a "private" conversation between two people.
swah 14y ago
In my workplace, we migh say that someone has a tiny dick and its a very light joke that every laughs about.

danilocampos 14y ago

If it were private, it wouldn't have happened with people nearby to hear it and the photo wouldn't have depicted dozens of people surrounding.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
paganel 14y ago
So you're saying "private" is not in fact, well, "private". I grew up as a kid on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, in Eastern Europe, where as it happens walls had ears and "private" was not in fact "private". To see this stuff repeating 25 years later in the free world is scary.
- awj 14y ago
  How on earth can you expect privacy in a conversation that people literally cannot help but overhear? This was a crowd of people in an audience either waiting for or listening to a presentation.
- mistercow 14y ago
  Yes, that's right. A privately run conference asking attendees to behave professionally around other attendees is exactly like the KGB, and is a sure sign that we are sliding downward into totalitarianism.
  - rmrfrmrf 14y ago
    Thank you -- all of these hate-laden comments are making me lose my mind.
  - paganel 14y ago
    This is going already too far, but anyway, here it goes. First of all, during the '80s (the time when I grew up) the KGB or the Securitate (the institution that was operating in my country) had already left their "harsh" methods behind, for the most part anyway, but they were instead operating through the peer pressure of those around you (friends, neighbors, strangers on the street, even close relatives). More exactly, had you by chance happened to listen to Radio Free Europe or made negative comments about the fact that there was no meat for sale in the stores, some of those mentioned above might have just "snitched" you to the powers that be (the Securitate in my country's case). You weren't risking that much, "just" your day job (like one of the guys in this story) and probably also the roof above your kids' heads (now if you don't have a job and you can't pay mortgage/rent you're in the same situation). Like I said, maybe it didn't seem much from the outside, but it was enough. All this because someone might have overheard you say something that wasn't abiding to the rules of the time. Yes, I do find the power to speak freely a little bit scary.
    - mistercow 14y ago
      Obviously I'm not arguing that Richards behaved appropriately in publicly shaming them. I'm saying that they behaved inappropriately in making the joke in the first place, and that there's nothing scary or totalitarian about a privately run conference having a code of conduct asking people to act professionally. Of course, the proper way to handle this would have been for Richards to talk to someone running the conference. They would have then gone to the people who were making the inappropriate jokes and asked them to remember that this was a professional environment, upon which apologies would have been given, and that would have been the end of it.
  - psionski 14y ago
    Of course it is! Either you're free to say anything or you're not free at all. There's no relativism here.
ineedtosleep 14y ago
Exactly. If you're sitting in a restaurant eating with some acquaintances/friends, you shouldn't expect privacy there either. The table next to you can get offended with some random inside joke that includes the words "penis", "boob", or maybe even "yoga pants." No jokes allowed unless you're wrapped in a Faraday cage filled in with sound proof material. None whatsoever.
- mistercow 14y ago
  That analogy is completely ridiculous. Restaurants are not venues that require customers to agree to a code of conduct barring inappropriate jokes. They're also not the kind of places where people are sitting quietly and near enough each other to hear jokes told quietly.
  - marshray 14y ago
    Python conventions are places where people can overhear my conversation, take pictures of me, and publicize them as personal accusations with impunity? I've been to plenty of conferences and I haven't heard of this happening, except to politicians when they forget there are microphones and news reporters around. This is why our society does, in fact, have a separate set of privacy rules for people classified as "public figures". So the rest of us can hang out and chat in comfort by assuming in all probability the absence of a news reporter or papparazi trying to play "gotcha" with a camera and microphone.
    - mistercow 14y ago
      Let's keep the threads of argument separate here. On the one hand, we have the question of whether or not that joke was acceptable in that situation, and in the ancestor comment, danilocampos was arguing that it was not. I tend to agree. Then there is the separate question of whether publicly shaming the person as Richards did was an acceptable response. I certainly do not think it was. But it's a separate issue.
      - marshray 14y ago

numbsafari 14y ago

What's private about a conversation being held in a crowd?

milesskorpen 14y ago

Whether they meant to offend people is irrelevant — its pretty clear that jokes w/ sexual innuendo in a public context isn't okay. Period. Also, as others have said, this clearly wasn't a private situation. The whole problem with these jokes, even if not told directly to someone's face, is that they create a poisonous atmosphere.

codesuela 14y ago
>poisonous atmosphere as opposed to publicly shaming someone without prior warning?
- raylu 14y ago
  That's bad too, but I think the original point still stands.
flebron 14y ago
I'm sorry, it's not clear to me. I do not think that there's something inherently sexist in sexual innuendo, or that it somehow isn't OK when among adults (and even if there's kids, they likely won't understand it - that's the beauty of innuendo).

paranoiacblack 14y ago

You're doing a bit of mental gymnastics here, especially with your last example. Obviously, you're concerned with your security and comfortability, but you're taking it out of context. Indeed, if I tell a hilarious racist joke as you've mentioned around the wrong people, it is very likely there will be a commotion that will get me removed from the setting. Even more so, the same wrong people might post it to their personal feed, announcing that you are, as you portrayed yourself, a xenophobic asshole. Now, if your boss happens to read that stream and hear that codesuela is a xenophobic asshole, they might decide to terminate you. Your argument is that it wasn't meant to offend anybody. But it did, so that's out of play. You also seem to assume that they weren't talking loudly and somehow Adria was simply eavesdropping on them, which is just speculation on your part. While I agree that how you talk to your buddy is no one's business, that doesn't mean you're now exempt from being called out because it was meant to be private.

awj 14y ago

They were sitting in an audience with over ten people inside of ten feet. It doesn't matter how private you want your conversation to be, in that kind of setting you will be overheard and should act accordingly.

jasonlotito 14y ago

> Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other? She was speaking to one of the two people. Further, judging by the description which has only been supported, it was not a "private" conversation between two people.

swah 14y ago

In my workplace, we migh say that someone has a tiny dick and its a very light joke that every laughs about.