4 ms·

This could be a killer app for business applications. Having the development environment hooked up to the visual mockup designer is a key element for quickly b

This could be a killer app for business applications. Having the development environment hooked up to the visual mockup designer is a key element for quickly bringing apps that the business likes and IT approves of. If they can get this right, there is a lot of money here. Especially considering the amount of lazy IT shops out there.

dan_sim 18y ago
That's the problem with desktop-like UI, it's created by lazy developers. They used and learnt RAD ten years ago and they don't want to bother to learn HTML and how the web works.
- adammarkey 18y ago
  Lazy developers are something corporations and IT departments have to live with. The good ones leave and end up working for startups or go independent. The great thing about an IDE like this is that it can be a foundation for RAD projects - it could let IT departments finally move those aging VB6 / Access applications to the web.
- ams6110 18y ago
  HTML and "the web" were designed as a simple information-sharing platform based on hyperlinked static text documents. Building actual business applications on top of this, even if you know how the web works, has always been pretty much a kludge.
  - firebug 18y ago
    Or any kind of application thanks to the mess of standards that web developers have had to deal with. Atlas and Flex are an imperfect workaround for that problem.
wmf 18y ago
Atlas must appear pretty killer to people who haven't seen Flex Builder.
- adammarkey 18y ago
  Flex is very nice, but Flex uses a flash plugin as it's runtime. A flex application is compiled binary sent to the browser - doesn't sound very dynamic or open web to me. Cappucino uses good old XHTML and javascript. If you look at browser advancements in Javascript just in the past few months alone, 2 years from now technologies like flash may only be useful for very niche circumstances.
  - wmf 18y ago
    Cappucino uses good old XHTML and javascript. Does it really? When I view source on http://280slides.com/Editor/ http://280slides.com/Editor/ I don't see much HTML. Does Atlas generate HTML or something else? In what ways does Cappucino participate in the open Web?
    - bonaldi 18y ago
      I don't see any HTML and precious little "open web" in Flash, Mr hey-hooray-for-Flex-Builder.
      - wmf 18y ago
        Yeah, that's my point; they look pretty equal to me.
    - adammarkey 18y ago
      View source will only show the state of the HTML before Javascript renders the rest of the HTML. Check out the application using firebug (firefox plugin) and look at the HTML that is actually being rendered. Lots of div's for the layout of course and a few canvas elements (i think those are for the slide rendering). While it may not be the most readable XHTML in the world - at least it doesn't use a plugin to do that work.
    - tolmasky 18y ago
      Yes, it does really use HTML and JavaScript. Cappuccino "participates" in the open web as much as any other application written on top of open web technologies.

dan_sim 18y ago

That's the problem with desktop-like UI, it's created by lazy developers. They used and learnt RAD ten years ago and they don't want to bother to learn HTML and how the web works.

adammarkey 18y ago
Lazy developers are something corporations and IT departments have to live with. The good ones leave and end up working for startups or go independent. The great thing about an IDE like this is that it can be a foundation for RAD projects - it could let IT departments finally move those aging VB6 / Access applications to the web.
ams6110 18y ago
HTML and "the web" were designed as a simple information-sharing platform based on hyperlinked static text documents. Building actual business applications on top of this, even if you know how the web works, has always been pretty much a kludge.
- firebug 18y ago
  Or any kind of application thanks to the mess of standards that web developers have had to deal with. Atlas and Flex are an imperfect workaround for that problem.

wmf 18y ago

Atlas must appear pretty killer to people who haven't seen Flex Builder.

adammarkey 18y ago
Flex is very nice, but Flex uses a flash plugin as it's runtime. A flex application is compiled binary sent to the browser - doesn't sound very dynamic or open web to me. Cappucino uses good old XHTML and javascript. If you look at browser advancements in Javascript just in the past few months alone, 2 years from now technologies like flash may only be useful for very niche circumstances.
- wmf 18y ago
  Cappucino uses good old XHTML and javascript. Does it really? When I view source on http://280slides.com/Editor/ http://280slides.com/Editor/ I don't see much HTML. Does Atlas generate HTML or something else? In what ways does Cappucino participate in the open Web?
  - bonaldi 18y ago
    I don't see any HTML and precious little "open web" in Flash, Mr hey-hooray-for-Flex-Builder.
    - wmf 18y ago
      Yeah, that's my point; they look pretty equal to me.
  - adammarkey 18y ago
    View source will only show the state of the HTML before Javascript renders the rest of the HTML. Check out the application using firebug (firefox plugin) and look at the HTML that is actually being rendered. Lots of div's for the layout of course and a few canvas elements (i think those are for the slide rendering). While it may not be the most readable XHTML in the world - at least it doesn't use a plugin to do that work.
  - tolmasky 18y ago
    Yes, it does really use HTML and JavaScript. Cappuccino "participates" in the open web as much as any other application written on top of open web technologies.