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They should leave existing users data, if they wanted to keep any respect in the community I'd say. It is sad watching all these companies giving "free" service

They should leave existing users data, if they wanted to keep any respect in the community I'd say. It is sad watching all these companies giving "free" services away, just to remove them again. Don't trust anything free, because nothing really is.

JohnTHaller 14y ago
If something is free, you're not the customer, you're the product being sold. I'm consistently amazed by people who are surprised when a free product either (1) switches to a paid model, (2) has service issues or (3) goes under.
- Karunamon 14y ago
  >If something is free, you're not the customer, you're the product being sold. A pithy saying, but not much more. I run a minecraft server for free, are you implying that I sell my players?
  - derekp7 14y ago
    Out of curiosity, do you have a way of making money off your minecraft server (even if it's just enough to pay for bandwidth)? If not, then that saying still holds for commercial giveaways. Therefore it can probably be supplemented with "(community projects excepted)".
    - Karunamon 14y ago
      Donations, actually. It still operates at a net loss, but the costs are offset. But to make it a bit more relevant, where would you put Canonical on this list? Ubuntu is given away for free, they don't sell their users (with the very arguable exception of the Amazon lens fiasco), yet they make their money by selling professional services (Landscape and the like).
      - derekp7 14y ago
        I would still place that as a community project (or community service project), which is used as a loss leader for their commercial (support) offering. And, according to recent controversy surrounding their desktop search, some would argue that they are moving to their users being the product.
tomku 14y ago
Paying them yourself isn't enough when it comes to file lockers. Their goal is to get not only the original uploaders paying to keep their files online, but also some percentage of downloaders as well. That's why sites like this have countdown timers, bandwidth limits and waiting periods. They're hoping that people will get so sick of the bullshit trying to download your files that they'll spring for a premium subscription. This is why they've had such an interesting relationship with copyright infringement. Obviously, they want to avoid getting shut down - but people uploading TV shows, games, music, movies, etc on places like DDL forums drive so much traffic and so many premium memberships that their business model almost depends on them. Some of them even pay dividends to the popular uploaders, as a thank you for driving traffic. This drives an entire underground economy, where people upload copyrighted content to file lockers, then use the payments from the file locker service to buy more content to upload. Edit: One example of this kind of underground economy is in the anime fansubbing community. You've got people who want to widely distribute 200-500mb files (generally) that are... not entirely free of copyright, to say the least. Hosting the files yourself would be a pain, as you'd get takedown notices AND have to pay for servers and bandwidth. However, you can upload your episodes to a couple file locker services and post the links on your site. You'll get a kickback from the file lockers for driving traffic, and if they get taken down, you can just reupload them, possibly even at the same site. The fansub groups say they use the money to pay for hosting and buy Blu-rays to rip and release, but I'm sure some of them pocket some as a salary too.
- Retric 14y ago
  Most fansub groups stop when the content owners licence the product in the US or simply request that they do so. As to making money that's theoretically possible, but only in the spending all day helping a friend move for a beer is 'making money'.
  - tomku 14y ago
    I think your knowledge might be a little outdated. Now that streaming (and less frequently, retail) rights are being sold before the shows even air, there's very little mid-season dropping due to licensing - the groups that sub airing shows know that they're licensed, and they don't care. DVD/BD rip groups care even less, and they seem to use file lockers a lot more regularly than the actual fansubbers. As far as profitability, I don't think that most of them are raking in the millions, or even doing it as a full-time job. Most of the profit is on the file locker's side - otherwise they wouldn't be giving payouts in the first place. I suspect that the groups that really push the DDLs probably make enough to pay for hosting and some percentage of the DVDs/BDs they buy. Whether you view that as profit is up to you - but I think it's a little more than getting a beer for helping a friend move.

JohnTHaller 14y ago

If something is free, you're not the customer, you're the product being sold. I'm consistently amazed by people who are surprised when a free product either (1) switches to a paid model, (2) has service issues or (3) goes under.

Karunamon 14y ago
>If something is free, you're not the customer, you're the product being sold. A pithy saying, but not much more. I run a minecraft server for free, are you implying that I sell my players?
- derekp7 14y ago
  Out of curiosity, do you have a way of making money off your minecraft server (even if it's just enough to pay for bandwidth)? If not, then that saying still holds for commercial giveaways. Therefore it can probably be supplemented with "(community projects excepted)".
  - Karunamon 14y ago
    Donations, actually. It still operates at a net loss, but the costs are offset. But to make it a bit more relevant, where would you put Canonical on this list? Ubuntu is given away for free, they don't sell their users (with the very arguable exception of the Amazon lens fiasco), yet they make their money by selling professional services (Landscape and the like).
    - derekp7 14y ago
      I would still place that as a community project (or community service project), which is used as a loss leader for their commercial (support) offering. And, according to recent controversy surrounding their desktop search, some would argue that they are moving to their users being the product.

tomku 14y ago

Paying them yourself isn't enough when it comes to file lockers. Their goal is to get not only the original uploaders paying to keep their files online, but also some percentage of downloaders as well. That's why sites like this have countdown timers, bandwidth limits and waiting periods. They're hoping that people will get so sick of the bullshit trying to download your files that they'll spring for a premium subscription. This is why they've had such an interesting relationship with copyright infringement. Obviously, they want to avoid getting shut down - but people uploading TV shows, games, music, movies, etc on places like DDL forums drive so much traffic and so many premium memberships that their business model almost depends on them. Some of them even pay dividends to the popular uploaders, as a thank you for driving traffic. This drives an entire underground economy, where people upload copyrighted content to file lockers, then use the payments from the file locker service to buy more content to upload. Edit: One example of this kind of underground economy is in the anime fansubbing community. You've got people who want to widely distribute 200-500mb files (generally) that are... not entirely free of copyright, to say the least. Hosting the files yourself would be a pain, as you'd get takedown notices AND have to pay for servers and bandwidth. However, you can upload your episodes to a couple file locker services and post the links on your site. You'll get a kickback from the file lockers for driving traffic, and if they get taken down, you can just reupload them, possibly even at the same site. The fansub groups say they use the money to pay for hosting and buy Blu-rays to rip and release, but I'm sure some of them pocket some as a salary too.

Retric 14y ago
Most fansub groups stop when the content owners licence the product in the US or simply request that they do so. As to making money that's theoretically possible, but only in the spending all day helping a friend move for a beer is 'making money'.
- tomku 14y ago
  I think your knowledge might be a little outdated. Now that streaming (and less frequently, retail) rights are being sold before the shows even air, there's very little mid-season dropping due to licensing - the groups that sub airing shows know that they're licensed, and they don't care. DVD/BD rip groups care even less, and they seem to use file lockers a lot more regularly than the actual fansubbers. As far as profitability, I don't think that most of them are raking in the millions, or even doing it as a full-time job. Most of the profit is on the file locker's side - otherwise they wouldn't be giving payouts in the first place. I suspect that the groups that really push the DDLs probably make enough to pay for hosting and some percentage of the DVDs/BDs they buy. Whether you view that as profit is up to you - but I think it's a little more than getting a beer for helping a friend move.