6 ms·

He built it during University, so before he started working for the employer. They may have a legitimate business concern, but that doesn't change the fact that

• shadowmint 14y ago
  That's true if and only if he didn't continue to refine and contribute to the code after entering employment, and specifically, didn't use it at his place of employment. Many places have terrible and unhealthy, but legally binding contracts regarding work done in your own time while employed. :( Without more information we can't know, but its far from given that their position is legally ambiguous.
  • analog 14y ago
    Agreed, but he's based in the UK, so the 'we own all your IP' thing doesn't apply here. On company time yes, in your own time I believe not. Your own time would not be "in the course of his or her employment." http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-ownership/c-employer.htm http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-ownership/c-employer.htm
    • arethuza 14y ago
      I've seen employment contracts in the UK that try the "own time" thing - these are probably not enforceable, but you probably wouldn't want to go through the process of putting that to the test.
      • analog 14y ago
        Yup, you'd want to strike out any clauses like that before you signed any employment contract that had them in.
        • Swinx43 14y ago
          Definitely worth doing that as it is actually a lot more common in the UK for these clauses to be part of any developer's contract than what people realize. Believe me I had to learn it the hard way.
      • Silhouette 14y ago
        It is widespread practice in the UK for "a certain type of organisation" to include a blanket IP clause in their standard employment contracts. I don't know of any robust legal argument that such a clause should not be enforceable (which isn't to say that none exists, but I've been involved in some fairly heavy negotiations on this score in the past and no lawyer on either side has ever questioned that aspect to my knowledge). If you choose to work for that type of organisation, it is therefore similarly widespread practice for anyone who's any good to demand that the clause be replaced with something more equitable, probably using magic words like "in the course of your employment" or something similar. I don't know what default rules apply under all possible circumstances in the absence of any explicit agreement, but if you work in an IP-related field and don't have an explicit agreement about IP rights in your contract, you're crazy. :-)
        • arethuza 14y ago
          "a certain type of organisation" I'd love to know what you mean by that! :-)
          • Silhouette 14y ago
            What I actually meant was the kind of company, usually large, often foreign-owned, where HR is run by droids who think creative people are interchangeable commodities whose souls should rightfully belong to the company 24/7 in return for paying their salary. If they're smart enough to let the managers who need to get real work done override the paranoia of the corporate legal and HR departments, they can still hire good people by allowing flexibility in the contract when these over-reaching terms are almost inevitably challenged. Some places just won't deviate from their standard contract and if you want a job with them then you just have to suck it up. Strangely, I don't know many good creative people who work for those places.
  • gngeal 14y ago
    "That's true if and only if he didn't continue to refine and contribute to the code after entering employment, and specifically, didn't use it at his place of employment." The same could be applied in reverse: if he wrote a considerable part of the code before entering employment and did use it at his place of employment, what does it say about the employer's right to use it? Or is it "since you're working here now, we can use all you ever wrote exclusively even if you didn't license it to us"?
    • analog 14y ago
      Without a specific licence there would be an implicit contract that the employer could use the library for any projects that Nick has used the library on. If after Nick leaves they would be on shaky ground if they used it on other projects that Nick hadn't worked on. IANL but that's my understanding of the law in the UK.
  • pyre 14y ago
    I've seen employment contracts that try to claim IP developed before you even took the job. Probably completely unenforceable, but I really wish that over-reaching contracts like that were punishable to prevent the ultra-conservative "ask for everything, and maybe get less" approach.
• TomGullen 14y ago
  In a lot of Universities, depending on what course you do, this means the University has a share in it. (Although I've never seen this enforced!)
  • DannyBee 14y ago
    Speaking as an IP lawyer, this has been enforced many times.
• DannyBee 14y ago
  Undergrad or post-doc? If post-doc, humorously, in this day and age, this would likely mean the university owns it, rather than the employer. Undergrad, a number of universities have started having students sign agreements giving them rights, but most don't.
  • lutusp 14y ago
    > ... a number of universities have started having students sign agreements giving them rights, but most don't. Most universities, or most students?
    • DannyBee 14y ago
      Sorry, most universities don't. It's a trickier area. Post-docs are usually paid, so the universities have a clear work-for-hire claim. Because Undergrad students aren't usually paid, it's a much harder claim to make ( I'm aware of post-doc agreements being litigated and upheld, but am not aware of any litigation on the undergrad side.