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It's interesting that the PISA scores are always used to declare that the school system of X is vastly superior to Y, (usually some other country in comparison
by brianchu 14y ago
It's interesting that the PISA scores are always used to declare that the school system of X is vastly superior to Y, (usually some other country in comparison to America), a conclusion that ignores the fact that test scores are affected by variables other than the educational system of a country.
If you correct for ethnic background, America holds up very well. Asian-Americans (including Asian-Americans from developing nations like Vietnam and Cambodia) score as high as Asians in the wealthy countries of Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Hong Kong. European-descended Americans score in the upper third of the pack when compared to other White Europeans (ahead of Australia, Denmark, France, and the EU average, below Finland, Switzerland, Canada, Germany) [1]. In this comparison, Finland does stand above the rest, admittedly. But what drags down our scores? Disadvantaged ethnic minorities. The same applies to European countries: "In almost all European countries, immigrants from third world countries score lower than native born kids."
Even immigrants to Finland score poorly compared to native Finns; it's just that only 4% of Finns are immigrants. In fact, the gap between immigrant and native PISA scores is greater in Finland than the USA.
With all the institutional and socioeconomic baggage that comes with being Hispanic or black in America, you cannot seriously compare the raw PISA scores of a nation of immigrants that is 13% black and 16% Hispanic (America) with a nation that is by and large culturally and ethnically homogenous (Finland), and use that to draw meaningful conclusions about the educational system.
[1] http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-abou...
EDIT (reply to below): No, because even immigrants/minorities in Finland score lower than average; the gap between immigrants to Finland and native Finns is even greater than the gap between immigrants to America and native Finns. Furthermore it is very hard to make a comparison because it's pretty easy to have "equity" when your entire society is largely ethnically/culturally homogenous, and when you only have to scale that equity across a very small population.
- waterlesscloud 14y agoWhat I always enjoy is the "Standardized tests are bad, as this standardized test proves!" schtick. Moving beyond that, though, this article (in German, use google translate if needed) seems to say that Finland's performance can be wholly accounted for by their focus on pulling up the weakest performers. http://www.spiegel.de/schulspiegel/wissen/finnlands-pisa-geheimnis-die-champions-der-unteren-zehntausend-a-347648.html http://www.spiegel.de/schulspiegel/wissen/finnlands-pisa-geh... EDIT- google translate changes "unteren zehntausend" in the title to "pocketful of miracles", seemingly because there was a film with those titles in each language. I think the literal translation of "lower (or bottom) ten thousand" is more accurate in this case. Ah, machine learning.
- nhaehnle 14y agoThis just underscores the headline statement of the article though, wouldn't you say? If e.g. US education policy were strongly focused on equity, chances are that those immigrants wouldn't score lower than the average. And since powerful groups would still want their children to score well, chances are that the system would change in a way that pulls everybody up rather than pushing anybody down. From the other perspective, it seems perfectly possible to have a culturally and ethnically homogenous country with high inequality (along class lines rather than racial lines) and hence worse education results.
- netcan 14y agoEthnic issues aside, I think the OP's most important point is that schools are not the only thing that goes into education. Their family, community and friends might even be more important. Imagine you took a school performing in the top 5% academically and swap the students with a school performing in the bottom 5%. Which do you think will perform better? Universities ares someplace where this is widely accepted. Go to a good Uni because that's where the good students are. It probably works for primary schools too.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- waps 14y agoThat's assuming there is a way to have equality without pulling everybody down to some moronically bad level. That's the only way I've ever known equality to work.
- qznc 14y agoSo, to improve PISA scores, do not let children immigrate. Is there a country which drastically changed their immigration policy in the last 20 years and does regular PISA tests? Your theory predicts a corresponding change in the PISA scores.
- ZeroGravitas 14y agoYou seem to flip between immigration and "race" (I don't think it's a helpful social construct, hence the scare quotes) somewhat randomly in your post. Immigrants scoring lower makes some intuitive sense to me, they've just shifted country and probably need to learn a new language etc. which will hold them back at first. But what's that got to do with African-Americans?
- brianchu 14y agoFinland does not collect data on the ethnic makeup of its population, so I had to flip around with race and immigrants.