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Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launches, I also hear about the experiences of women working at startups. In both cases I offer suggestions, ideas and mentoring to help the developers become problems solvers. Sometimes the answer is our API or not answering email after 7pm while other times it about being assertive and shedding impostor syndrome. The forking joke set the stage for the dongle joke. Yes, this time I decided I didn't want to argue my perspective. I decided instead to accept it bothered me and took action based on the PyCon Code of Conduct. It sounds like if I'd said something about the forking you would have denied it having a sexual association. Not sure if I smiled but I'm also unsure what facial expression you would have expected. I just got done writing my blog post you can read here: http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/ http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont... See you next year.

zshprompt 14y ago
Adria, its the photo that's the problem. Using to identify the people in question is OK. Posting it to the internet is wrong. Unlike your explanation states you did not let the staff resolve it. You took matters into your own hands, and served up justice vigilante style. Just as someone has to watch their mouth, you also have responsibilities. I am sure you are sorry mr-hank lost his job. But just like his dumb ass comments posting photos cannot be undone.
- norabean 14y ago
  Yea I am on accord with you on this. This is a case where she tried to make things better, but her slight immaturity made someone lose their job, and now kind of makes her look worse. cringe why do the people who think they are going to help us (women) the most, make us look the worst at times. I just feel both parties should have communicated to each other. She didn't need to make this about social media and a fight for women on this planet. This is nuts--- everyone thinks that they are speakers for "all of us". I just wish Americans left their high horse standings and realized this is not okay.
  - femaledev 14y ago
    Adria, right in line with this comment, your blog post is out of control. You took it personally by taking things you heard earlier in the day and unleashed it on one person. You have to own up and address that your behavior was immature and irresponsible as a person. You should have turned around and told them you could hear and were offended. If there was not proper apology then, contact security. IN NO WAY was it appropriate to post a picture of them in their company's shirts and take something out of context, let alone make a claim that it was a "feminist action" or that you were acting as the "Joan of Arc of the digital age." You want to do something that fits with your supposed goal set that you keep talking about. Own up to your behavior and take a stand for what is actually right. His company did nothing to defend him for fear of looking bad. At the same time that company and other companies allow behavior that you are so opposed to happen in offices all over the bay. If you want to be a leader than take an honest evaluation of what beliefs are for the better whole and what you are taking personally and reacting to. I am embarrassed that you are representing us as a female activist because you are actually making it HARDER to gain equality in the space.
    - nnja 14y ago
      I agree with you 100%. I'm embarrassed that she's a self proclaimed representative of 'women in tech'. If she really wanted to make a point she could have turned around and told the guy that what he said was not OK. Not only would it would have driven the point across that some people are more sensitive than others, but it would be treating the guy like a fellow human being.
  - zshprompt 14y ago
    Yeah, this is passive aggressive stuff. The guy said you even smiled at him as you took the picture. I actually read more of Adria's site and I read http://butyoureagirl.com/13871/success-against-the-odds-filling-my-technology-knapsack-from-scratch/ http://butyoureagirl.com/13871/success-against-the-odds-fill.... "Because of my experiences growing up, I have triggers. This means that I’m always scanning for danger; for situations that seem like something from the past that could hurt me. When I recognize something that matches, I can overreact and feel intense fear, anger or anxiety." Which explains a lot. I am shocked to read about Adria's experiences as a child, and would urge everyone to go a little easier on her.
Xylakant 14y ago
The problem I see here is that you snapped a picture and posted it in public - being prosecutor, judge, jury and executor in one person. That's not how things should work out. There's two sides of the story and I think it would have been better if a neutral party heard both sides instead of public summary execution. The guys conduct may not have been appropriate, but IMHO yours was not as well. Had you done all of this without posting the picture and let the organizers resolve this in a professional manner I'd be totally on your side, but the way things played out I'm not.
- Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
  Sorry but the company were judge, jury and executor, not her. If you report a crime to the police and as a result the person gets sent to prison did you send them to prison? Of course not. She reported something that happened (which the person in question doesn't deny) - that's a reasonable thing to do. The neutral party you ask for should then be the employer who can listen to both sides of the story and work out the appropriate way forward. If they felt there was damage to their reputation it feels a public apology from both the individual and the company, plus possibly some sort of corrective training seems more than enough. Instead, based on what I've read the employer has over reacted and that balance didn't happen, but you can't blame that on the person reporting the event. Yes it's utterly shitty that he lost his job over this and it really shouldn't have happened but it's not fair to lay it at her door in this way.
  - norabean 14y ago
    > Sorry but the company were judge, jury and executor, not her. What would you do in this day if you were a company? No one wants to be dealing with a potential major sexual harassment case ever. This country is based on such limited knowledge of how to communicate with one another, it is upsetting. This post upsets me because she just sounds like a typical American person in that she used others to attack someone, rather than talking to him. Judging by his response, he was not some crazy college kid with aggression problems that would have physically attacked her. The tech community is not perfect, but I think people in tech are far more open to talking through things than any other spots. SF especially. Maybe these people are not from the bay area,.. I don't know.
thisone 14y ago
Adria, what did you expect to happen? You didn't want to argue your perspective so you went full nuclear on people. And that full nuclear got someone fired, simply because you didn't want to have to talk to them. I can understand you may be sick and tired of arguing your perspective with other people, but I hope you've learned something as well here as I doubt that this was the outcome you were looking for.
ThunderMatt 14y ago
No, you, because of your actions, made a person lose their job. In this environment that is a near death sentence. And with the seeming recent trend of over reacting conventions you knew full well what was going to happen. ( ex. violetblue's issue that I'm sure you are aware of) You acted irresponsibly, publicly, and should feel bad about yourself. You took advantage of a known community issue and leveraged it for your own gain. Please consider your actions in the future WHEN PEOPLE'S JOBS ARE ON THE LINE.
- colabug 14y ago
  Death sentence? A little extreme, don't you think? Unemployment is pretty low in the tech sector. In the very worst case (no one ever hiring him again [which is unlikely]), he has the skills to create his own projects/business. I also fail to see what she had to gain by this directly. Best case, she achieves community awareness and growth (which doesn't seem to be happening judging by the threads I've read) and worst case being vilified for speaking out (which is happening). Jobs are always on the line. If you are at a conference, you are the face of your company and your actions reflect on that company.
  - femaledev 14y ago
    Her website is called "butyouragirl" and you don't see what she has to gain by shaming men developers? She calls herself an "activist" but uses the fact that she is FEMALE to get ahead, as opposed to the quality of her work. Joan of Arc would be rolling in her grave.
    - AutoCorrect 14y ago
      butyoureagirl would be more correct, I guess she lacks judgement and a knowledge of the English language... <ducks/>
      - apetresc 14y ago
        The typo was femaledev's, not Adria's. The correct URL is butyoureagirl.com
general_failure 14y ago
You could have been a great person by just turning around and telling those guys that this is not cool. Instead you resorted to playing the 'female' card. Outright pathetic.
justin66 14y ago
Without commenting on the comment itself I'd like to note that this post is yet another example of downvoting abuse. Cut that out, people. There's nothing here that merits censorship or violates the rules. On the contrary, if the article itself is worthy of inclusion on HN then the interaction between Hank and Adria certainly is.
themightykevdog 14y ago
You can do just about anything you want, it's the way you do it that matters. You went over the line when you publicly posted their photo, plain and simple. And your defense of possible misunderstanding is, to be blunt, far short of logical. You don't know that he didn't defend himself to the organizers and that they rejected his defense (unless I've missed something).
antihero 14y ago
How exactly are forking and dongle innuendos offensive to women? What right do you have to be offended by them other than that you have ears?
- jonhendry 14y ago
  You've never heard of a double entendre? How many terrible jokes have been made along the lines of "I'd like to put my hard drive in her RAM slot". Jokes like that were old and corny 20 years ago. HINT: though it uses the terms "hard drive" and "RAM slot", as used, they don't actually refer to a hard drive or a RAM slot. It's entirely reasonable to know what forking and dongles mean in the normal sense, yet to hear comments about "forking" and "big dongles" and understand they're not being used to refer to the usual things.
  - antihero 14y ago
    There's a massive difference between general innuendo and innuendo directed at someone. Yes the jokes are corny, but since when have corny jokes been grounds for complete humiliation and losing your job?
  - sp332 14y ago
    First, the "forking" joke was not sexual. It referred to actually forking a repo on github. Second, is the fact that guys have "dongles" offensive to women?
xxxxxxxxxxx 14y ago
"I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively." if you're serious about that, promote this petition as hard as you did the damaging photo: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/374/323/889/give-alex-reid-his-job-back/ http://www.thepetitionsite.com/374/323/889/give-alex-reid-hi...
- mr-hank 14y ago
  Its worth pointing out I'm not Alex, he had no part in this situation and is still employed. The gesture is kind none the less.
  - zshprompt 14y ago
    Mr Hank, due to your privacy being violated in this crazy creepy manner I was able to find who you are. Good luck to you sir. There are a lot of men and women who are on your side. One thing I will say is, that your former employer is crazy not to have your back. Is there no way they can change their mind? (I am not sure you would want your job back because they really let you down)
  - mathnode 14y ago
    Now she has been fired, you two should start up your own tech company.
  - citadrianne 14y ago
    Hi there, reporter for The Verge here. We're doing a story on this and need to speak to you off the record. Email me at adrianne@theverge.com. Thanks.
    - floridacoding 14y ago
      Do you really think he is going to respond to a female in light of what happened? Especially to a female named ADRIAnne? :) Just a little immature humor there. :)
bobthecrusher 14y ago
Fuck you, you eavesdropped on a private conversation and then published ONE COMMENT TAKEN COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT on the internet, hoping for a lynch mob to form.
- dontmindme 14y ago
  How, exactly, was it a private conversation? Do you not understand how social interaction works? And are you so flagrantly ignorant that you like to throw around the phrase "lynch mob" without knowing what it means, or do you really think that repeating part of a public conversation is similar to gathering a mob to murder someone? Must be nice to lead such a sheltered life that you can so easily hallucinate about lynching.
D_Alex 14y ago
I am curious why this comment has no downvote arrow.
- hackinthebochs 14y ago
  Comments over 24 hours old lose it.
- SilasX 14y ago
  Hey, I never get a downvote arrow ...
ericjeepn 14y ago
A known "Developer Evangelist" with a large following that's been featured on mainstream media tweets a picture of someone in the technology field that has offended her, as opposed to simply confronting him, or just notifying the conference management. You were very aware that there would be repercussions. No offering of suggestions, ideas or mentoring to help solve a problem, simply call the masses and authorities to deal with it. I realize that my opinion doesn't matter to you, however I think that you were wrong in this instance.
curiousme 14y ago
That is a dead link for people from Europe.
DurMcHur 14y ago
"I'm a developer evangelist" Anyone who makes up a title like this is an ego-maniac, regardless of their sex. Good thing that the start-up you work for is crap and won't get acquired any time soon. Once you hit the job market, HR departments and hiring managers will remember your name and I doubt you will get many call-backs.
- amacide 14y ago
  "I'm a developer evangelist"... Anyone who makes up a title like this is an ego-maniac, regardless of their sex. +1000
- ceejayoz 14y ago
  "Developer evangelist" is a very common title for folks who manage developer relations. Apple, Google, MS, etc. all have them. It's unlikely she made up the title.
moolcool 14y ago
>developer evangelist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SoWNMNKNeM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SoWNMNKNeM
TY812 14y ago
> For context, I'm a developer evangelist. Actually, no, you are not. You are - by definition - a terrorist, applying unlawful use of force or violence against people with the intention of intimidating or coercing groups of people and societies for ideological or political reasons. The fact that you do have supporters shows the sad state of affairs this world is in.
- andybak 14y ago
  My, how flexible the word 'terrorist' has become.
  - ffuck 14y ago
    how flexible the word "evangelist" has become
- KuraFire 14y ago
  Wow, you give tech a bad name both by your massively offensive accusation, as well as your completely wrong use of the word "terrorist" thereby reducing its significance. The thing showing a sad state of affairs here is you.
  - colinbm 14y ago
    Considering how completely wrong use/interpretation of the words sexism/sexist, thereby reducing their significance, is what this is all about, it seems apt.
  - TY812 14y ago
    I am following the definition given by many dictionaries (and, by the way, 28 Code of Federal Regulations Section 0.85). Terrorists don't all wear beards and have TNT strapped around their waists while piloting hijacked planes, you know?
    - onceuponapriori 14y ago
      I think what she did was awful. But I have a hard time understanding how you cant see that her actions don't meet all of the conditions found in the definition you yourself supplied.
IanCal 14y ago
> The forking joke set the stage for the dongle joke. What actually was the 'forking joke'? Because he seems to claim there wasn't one, but you think there was. He's made a claim about what he said, do you remember what it was?
mrprickly 14y ago
>For context, I'm a cunt FTFY
cheez 14y ago
Your inability to take a joke is dangerous for the public image of whichever company you're evangelizing for. And this after you make "sock down your pants" jokes on Twitter. The irony is delicious. I hope the OP sues you for reproducing his likeness without his permission. PyCon is, after all, a private gathering.
- bherms 14y ago
  I would almost contend there are grounds for a defamation/libel (something... not a lawyer) suit here as well considering her comments have severely hurt his reputation and caused him to lose his job.
  - KuraFire 14y ago
    Cheez and bherms: neither of you guys understand the legal system very well, do you?
    - bherms 14y ago
      To be fair, not many people do, and lawsuits have been filed and won for much less.
    - cheez 14y ago
      Well, this is "Hacker News" and not "Groklaw". There needs to be some recourse to the public accusation. If I was him, I would have just "noped" my way out of it. Nope, I never said it. Nope, she misheard me. Nope. Nope. Nope. Fuck you, pay me.
- littlegiantcap 14y ago
  She works for Sendgrid.
  - cheez 14y ago
    Ah, I hope they realize what a liability they have on their hands. For example, imagine if a developer ACCIDENTALLY looked at her while walking by. Can you say sexual harassment lawsuit? LOL. This woman is bad news.
greendata 14y ago
You're an developer evangelist for Sendgrid. I can't believe you have not been fired for tweeting those pictures and getting those developers fired without even talking to them. Since Sendgrid continues to employee you, I'd encourage any developers using Sendgrid to switch to an alternative like Postmark or Mailgun. Let Sendgrid know why you are switching. For the record, I agree with you that those jokes were inappropriate, but what you did was orders of magnitude more inappropriate and unprofessional.
- francopd 14y ago
  Good job SendGrid, they fired her right away!
rollo_tommasi 14y ago
You're what Jaron Lanier means when he talks about "digital Maoism".
camperman 14y ago
Care to explain why you're allowed to make dick jokes but they can't?
- cheez 14y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_and_gender_feminism#Gender_feminism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_and_gender_feminism#Gend...
jongraehl 14y ago
You smiled while you took the photo you planned to shame them with. Enjoy your notoriety.
hpguy 14y ago
What a hypocrite. You can joke dirty publicly, but when it comes to 2 friends making private jokes with one another, you become Joan of Arc, a heroine, an activist. Well "calculated" though, I have to say.
beedogs 14y ago
Great job ruining someone's career because you're an oversensitive -- and apparently hypocritical -- imbecile. Maybe you should work on that.
askien 14y ago
You can tell sexist jokes on twitter (a far more public place) but when overhear two people having a private joke, you use your public image to SHAME these people and ultimately cost, at least one of them, their job. You acted with malice and deception as you took their picture smiling. Nice nice nice! :) You should be in politics! You are damaging Sendgrid's image by making a complete fool out of yourself in public... I find your actions disgusting. My personal opinion of you is VERY low. I won't use Sendgrid's products anymore. How's that for an overreaction?
emereld 14y ago
Allow me to make a small addendum. You are not a 'developer evangelist' you are an 'arbitrary evangelist'. You've applied internal frustration in a seemingly random manner and you refuse to see it. I think you've gone too far to apologise now, but you should try and think hard about whether you were right at all to do this.
peripetylabs 14y ago
If I may ask, what made you think it was appropriate to take a picture of this person and distribute it without his permission or the permission of the venue?
fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
Why can't you just turn around and say one of the following: Shhhhh. Take it outside. You're not funny, and I can't hear the talk. I'm going to call the conference police if you don't quiet yourselves. Or something to that effect? If somebody persists after you ask them to quit, fine, blast away.
- mymulti 14y ago
  Of course not. The only logical course of action is to post pictures of them on twitter and get them fired.
- sp332 14y ago
  The guy apologized, and everyone was satisfied at that point. No idea why PlayHaven fired him but that wasn't something she asked for.
  - fein 14y ago
    PlayHaven only fired their employee due to the public exposure this all received, which started with Adria's tweet.
    - singleuse 14y ago
      The tweet itself is arguably going overboard but the accompanying picture is the real issue, this is the element of public exposure which made all this going way way overboard. It's actually a serious offense and even a crime in other parts of the world, the kind that can send you in jail for quite some time, and on many websites and communities this could get you a ban.
    - fandoth 14y ago
      Fein is 100% correct. The issued a public statement.
rdtsc 14y ago
> Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. No but I will be speaking up and attacking you. > bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. And by constructively you mean maybe they'll post his picture on the billboard and call him publicly an "ass clown". So yeah, how about them insults? Is PyCon a conference where taking face shots of attendees and posting them for the whole world to see then calling them ass clown? > to not to work with you on this and Not to work with him on what. What kind of double speak is that? "Don't use toilet humor when talking to your co-workers at a conference". Yes, I hope his employer 'works' hard with him on that. > I also hear about the experiences of women working at startups. Do you hear about backstabbing, public humiliations and taking advantage situations for personal profit at the expense of other's lives? > Sometimes the answer is our API or not answering email after 7pm while other times it about being assertive and shedding impostor syndrome. Sometimes the answer is public flogging in a middle of the street. > The forking joke set the stage for the dongle joke. You are a developer's evangelist and you don't know what "forking" a repo is. You might consider filing a lawsuit against Github and Linus Torvalds because that's all they do. One invented it then other place is where forking happens all day every day. > It sounds like if I'd said something about the forking you would have denied it having a sexual association. And that is because ... it doesn't. Your title has 'developer' in it, you should at least find out what forking really means.
maxcan 14y ago
If you really feel regret for this, you should connect him with SendGrid and try to get him hired there.
VRS00 14y ago
What you did was pretty fucking retarded. You took a joke way out of proportion; then instead of telling the guy off- you took a picture of the guy and post it on twitter for the whole planet to see. Firing the guy and having his three kids go fucking hungry. Forget the guy here for a moment. YOU'VE JUST FUCKED OVER THREE KIDS OVER A DAMN JOKE. For "feminism"? What the fucking hell is wrong with you!? You're the reason why it's considered a joke in the western world. You have power, so do many other women. Hell, if you want to see female oppression, look at the middle east. Look in a number of third world countries. In the states a single accusation, not convicted or charged- ACCUSATION of rape will land a guy in prison. You have power, and I've seen others abuse that to their own ends to the point to where it became an issue that's stands here today. Of real rapists getting away and the innocent behind bars with their lives ruined. You're almost as bad as them... as you reinforce stereotypes and set bad examples for the rest of us that are fighting for real equality. My only advice to you is to grow thicker skin, you're not a delicate flower- you're a fucking human being that should be able to handle a seemingly 'uncomfortable' situation without generating drama like a fucking 14 year old in high school.
SimonSam 14y ago
God, you must be the worst developer evangelist out there. I would never, ever want to work with you. I would never, ever want to hire you.
dahauns 14y ago
> I decided instead to accept it bothered me and took action based on the PyCon Code of Conduct. Weeell, except you didn't. Or did you miss the part about how PyCon doesn't condone public shaming?
tripleggg 14y ago
"I'm a developer evangelist" This is code for professional bullshitter. We (the real developers) don't need any "evangelizing." Our work speaks for itself.
- commentor 14y ago
  FYI - she took your picture and published it, without a model release . . . technically, per the letter of the law - that is illegal . . . just sayin'
  - crystallize 14y ago
    Her taking a picture and posting it to Twitter (which is different from publishing) is not illegal. She didn't need a model release. The only time you need a model release is if you intend to sell the photograph of a person to be used for commercial purposes. You know, sell the picture to a company for the company to use it in an advertisement. At that time, a model release is required. No monetary gain was acquired in this situation, so why would a release be required? Know Copyright and publishing laws when you comment... just sayin'
    - dingledongle 14y ago
      The "word on the street" is that she uses Twitter to drive up her blog traffic, so if that can be proven in a civil case you're wrong about that. It will be hard to prove for a normal person. But if you read Amanda Blum's article about this you'll see that she has done stuff like this before. If a lawyer can build a case around an established pattern of using twitter to monetize traffic. All they have to do is subpoena her blog monetization records and her twitter posts to establish her intent to commercialize the photo. Some expert testimony from Amanda and there could be a case here. But does she have enough money to make it worth going after? I don't know. But it would probably be satisfying to the victims in this to watch her try and fake cry in court about how she was "doing it for the children" when we all know she was doing it for the web traffic.
    - dingledongle 14y ago
jluster 14y ago
Adria, in all this please take one thing from me. Please do not use the term "trigger" for things that make you angry or uncomfortable or sad. Triggers are powerful psychological events, things that make people near-catatonic, unable to act, have physical and psychological repercussions. A rape survivor, a soldier or police officer or survivor of domestic abuse won't smile, snap a picture, and use their significant power to shame someone if "triggered". Quite in the contrary. Your use of the word sets the stage for people to presume that someone who has a trigger could have "discussed it out" as you could have done. And that is demeaning and dangerous to everyone who really has psychological triggers.
- neefsck 14y ago
  I would just like to add my agreement with this. A "trigger" is something which leaves the sufferer (and it is suffering) with absolutely NO choice in how we react.
  - maradydd 14y ago
    I'd argue that in some cases there's a degree of control that can be developed, but also that this seems to be more the case for sensory triggers than for psychological ones.
SallySinep 14y ago
Adria, can you please do us all a huge favor and provide for us the exact wording of both the "dongle" and "forking" remarks that were made? All we have so far are assertions that these remarks were sexual in nature, but not evidence. I'm not saying I'd be surprised if one, or both of them were (knowing all too well the way men sometimes are, at these conferences). But really, it shouldn't be too hard for you to just tell us exactly what you heard, along with any supporting context that you feel would help us understand your position.
- mormy 14y ago
  errm no. because there was no "forking" joke. There was I'd fork that guy's repo. If you don't know what forking and repo means, well to put it bluntly you're out of place @ a dev conf. I fail to see how either of which is sexist, although if strained may be sexual. And also Adria made the much more lewd big dongle joke herself on Twitter a while back... It's all in comments here
  - SallySinep 14y ago
    If you don't know what forking and repo means, If you think that, you're reading way too much into my question.
sr3d 14y ago
You're one childish person. You should behave like a grown up, and learn to speak up correctly. Here in the US there's something called "Freedom of Speech" and if someone at a public event cannot make a private joke that somehow overheard by some crazy, cookoo person, then you got it all wrong. And you are deserved to be forked for being a nasty person. And no, your repos on Github (if you have any) are not even worth to be starred.
- simonrobb 14y ago
  I want to believe that I'm misinterpreting your comment about "deserved to be forked", but in the context of this discussion it sounds like a truly crude, offensive and sexist thing to say. I am disgusted. There is no place for a comment with the implications here - in any context, at any time. If I've misinterpreted, I apologize - but next time be more careful with how you choose your words.
  - singleuse 14y ago
    It seems to me it was a threat either of being stabbed with forks or sexually assaulted, neither is acceptable. This guy has all rights to feel angry about what she did, but this is not a welcome comment and he should probably be reported to the law enforcement authorities.
- dinkumthinkum 14y ago
  Far be from me to defend Adria Richards but "freedom of speech" means something different than what you think. The government cannot infringe on your right to express your opinion, etc. Also, the violent insinuation as no place on HN or anywhere.
- oracuk 14y ago
  I am constantly surprised at the bipolar nature of HN. It ranges from intelligent and considered posts about technology to unpleasant playground posts relating to politics and especially to sexual politics. I am usually able to sigh, roll my eye and close the browser tab but your comment 'deserved to be forked' demanded a response. Your post wasn't intelligent, wasn't constructive and offended me.
lilly26 14y ago
Why were you too afraid to confront them directly and privately about your concerns? You smiled at them when you too the picture...
dinkumthinkum 14y ago
I think the basic problem here that you are a documented fraud. You claimed to be some kind of Joan of Arc "minus the visions." Honestly, it seems to be it is more like "plus greater delusions of grandeur." You seem to have jumped on this as a way to drive your popularity; you were just too short sighted to see the backlash, I suppose. Perhaps, you enjoy some of the backlash because it may allow you to pivot toward some other activist role. I just don't think you are, in any way, authentic about this incident or other incidents. My problem is there is a clear pattern and smugness about the way you project yourself. I don't think you speak for all women and I don't think women want you to speak for them. You would take any criticism as simple victim blaming and that is unfortunate because it can be difficult, rhetorically, to argue against. However, I think many people can see through this veneer. As well, it could be innocent but your blog URL is yet another a signal to me; I don't think you intend well for any of this. You are looking for any issue for which you can champion yourself as some sort of Betty Friedan; unfortunately, you are no Betty Friedan, Sandra Day O'Connor or any other great female leader. Others are focusing on whether or not you can take a joke or if you should have discussed it with the people you publicly shamed instead. We know you weren't really offended, that wasn't the point. This was a prop for you. This is unfair to women that face will discrimination, prejudice, and so on that we should all denounce. This is just opportunism potentially gone awry. I could applaud you for actually coming to HN and making a statement but what you wrote is just smug and serving.
- singleuse 14y ago
  She was most probably not shortsighted about the upcoming backlash as she said herself on HN a year and a half ago: adriarichards 473 days ago We all should realize it's Twitter, home of public flame wars. It seems she had a pretty good understanding of what she did, and from this we can assume she acted with intent.
- torin 14y ago
  Excellent incisive post.
fakeer 14y ago
>>See you next year. I doubt they would invite you or let you attend next year. If they do, they shall have to rent a bigger venue just to make room for you and the empty seats around you. Not joking. I wouldn't want to be near you, leave alone having a conversation. Not the hate, it's fear to be fired or maybe sued for sexual harassment.
lilly26 14y ago
Adria, your actions are not "leaning in". Please, step back.
gsp613 14y ago
did you seriously shamelessly plug your blog?
fandoth 14y ago
You set women back 20 years by standing up to what exactly? You can't handle two men making jokes amongst themselves? Yet your twitter makes similar jokes with your friends? Your friend on twitter argued it was because of an established relationship and context. I would argue that is the exact same situation with the two men. The only variable in this entire situation is YOU Adria. It makes me sick that you have used your social media skills to demonize these men, but your actions are truly devious and evil. Pycon code of conduct? LOL. That man has a family, and lost his job for an alleged joke to a friend. Furthermore, this man is taking the high road and not fighting back. Sounds to me that if you had spoken to him privately and told him you were offended, then he prolly would have provided you with a sincere apology. Instead, you ruined his life, career, etc. People like you are leeches on society IMO. Hope I didn't make any sexual references you might be offended by.
fandoth 14y ago
I hope over the course of this next year you become jobless and blacklisted. I do not even know this guy, but YOU ruined his life, not the people that fired him. You acknowledged it yourself that a twitter firestorm erupted demonizing this man. THAT firestorm was started and fueled by you. Facts are this:You are a joke, you will amount to nothing historically, your mark on history will be as a woman that ruined the lives of three children supported by their hardworking father, you are a social media tool, dongles-computers-n' forking-oh my! I honestly hope the tone of this story begins demonizing YOU over the next few days and weeks. Furthermore, I wish Hank the best, you have learned that there are @$$h@t$ like Adria in this world and to avoid them at all costs. I wish you luck Hank. Adria, well you already destroyed your reputation, LOL, you do not need my help.
aftermath 14y ago
> Yes, this time I decided I didn't want to argue my perspective. So arguing or reporting him were your only options? Would not a simple "shush" have sufficed? You have some very serious man-hating anger issues.

zshprompt 14y ago

Adria, its the photo that's the problem. Using to identify the people in question is OK. Posting it to the internet is wrong. Unlike your explanation states you did not let the staff resolve it. You took matters into your own hands, and served up justice vigilante style. Just as someone has to watch their mouth, you also have responsibilities. I am sure you are sorry mr-hank lost his job. But just like his dumb ass comments posting photos cannot be undone.

norabean 14y ago
Yea I am on accord with you on this. This is a case where she tried to make things better, but her slight immaturity made someone lose their job, and now kind of makes her look worse. cringe why do the people who think they are going to help us (women) the most, make us look the worst at times. I just feel both parties should have communicated to each other. She didn't need to make this about social media and a fight for women on this planet. This is nuts--- everyone thinks that they are speakers for "all of us". I just wish Americans left their high horse standings and realized this is not okay.
- femaledev 14y ago
  Adria, right in line with this comment, your blog post is out of control. You took it personally by taking things you heard earlier in the day and unleashed it on one person. You have to own up and address that your behavior was immature and irresponsible as a person. You should have turned around and told them you could hear and were offended. If there was not proper apology then, contact security. IN NO WAY was it appropriate to post a picture of them in their company's shirts and take something out of context, let alone make a claim that it was a "feminist action" or that you were acting as the "Joan of Arc of the digital age." You want to do something that fits with your supposed goal set that you keep talking about. Own up to your behavior and take a stand for what is actually right. His company did nothing to defend him for fear of looking bad. At the same time that company and other companies allow behavior that you are so opposed to happen in offices all over the bay. If you want to be a leader than take an honest evaluation of what beliefs are for the better whole and what you are taking personally and reacting to. I am embarrassed that you are representing us as a female activist because you are actually making it HARDER to gain equality in the space.
  - nnja 14y ago
    I agree with you 100%. I'm embarrassed that she's a self proclaimed representative of 'women in tech'. If she really wanted to make a point she could have turned around and told the guy that what he said was not OK. Not only would it would have driven the point across that some people are more sensitive than others, but it would be treating the guy like a fellow human being.
- zshprompt 14y ago
  Yeah, this is passive aggressive stuff. The guy said you even smiled at him as you took the picture. I actually read more of Adria's site and I read http://butyoureagirl.com/13871/success-against-the-odds-filling-my-technology-knapsack-from-scratch/ http://butyoureagirl.com/13871/success-against-the-odds-fill.... "Because of my experiences growing up, I have triggers. This means that I’m always scanning for danger; for situations that seem like something from the past that could hurt me. When I recognize something that matches, I can overreact and feel intense fear, anger or anxiety." Which explains a lot. I am shocked to read about Adria's experiences as a child, and would urge everyone to go a little easier on her.

Xylakant 14y ago

The problem I see here is that you snapped a picture and posted it in public - being prosecutor, judge, jury and executor in one person. That's not how things should work out. There's two sides of the story and I think it would have been better if a neutral party heard both sides instead of public summary execution. The guys conduct may not have been appropriate, but IMHO yours was not as well. Had you done all of this without posting the picture and let the organizers resolve this in a professional manner I'd be totally on your side, but the way things played out I'm not.

Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
Sorry but the company were judge, jury and executor, not her. If you report a crime to the police and as a result the person gets sent to prison did you send them to prison? Of course not. She reported something that happened (which the person in question doesn't deny) - that's a reasonable thing to do. The neutral party you ask for should then be the employer who can listen to both sides of the story and work out the appropriate way forward. If they felt there was damage to their reputation it feels a public apology from both the individual and the company, plus possibly some sort of corrective training seems more than enough. Instead, based on what I've read the employer has over reacted and that balance didn't happen, but you can't blame that on the person reporting the event. Yes it's utterly shitty that he lost his job over this and it really shouldn't have happened but it's not fair to lay it at her door in this way.
- norabean 14y ago
  > Sorry but the company were judge, jury and executor, not her. What would you do in this day if you were a company? No one wants to be dealing with a potential major sexual harassment case ever. This country is based on such limited knowledge of how to communicate with one another, it is upsetting. This post upsets me because she just sounds like a typical American person in that she used others to attack someone, rather than talking to him. Judging by his response, he was not some crazy college kid with aggression problems that would have physically attacked her. The tech community is not perfect, but I think people in tech are far more open to talking through things than any other spots. SF especially. Maybe these people are not from the bay area,.. I don't know.

thisone 14y ago

Adria, what did you expect to happen? You didn't want to argue your perspective so you went full nuclear on people. And that full nuclear got someone fired, simply because you didn't want to have to talk to them. I can understand you may be sick and tired of arguing your perspective with other people, but I hope you've learned something as well here as I doubt that this was the outcome you were looking for.

ThunderMatt 14y ago

No, you, because of your actions, made a person lose their job. In this environment that is a near death sentence. And with the seeming recent trend of over reacting conventions you knew full well what was going to happen. ( ex. violetblue's issue that I'm sure you are aware of) You acted irresponsibly, publicly, and should feel bad about yourself. You took advantage of a known community issue and leveraged it for your own gain. Please consider your actions in the future WHEN PEOPLE'S JOBS ARE ON THE LINE.

colabug 14y ago
Death sentence? A little extreme, don't you think? Unemployment is pretty low in the tech sector. In the very worst case (no one ever hiring him again [which is unlikely]), he has the skills to create his own projects/business. I also fail to see what she had to gain by this directly. Best case, she achieves community awareness and growth (which doesn't seem to be happening judging by the threads I've read) and worst case being vilified for speaking out (which is happening). Jobs are always on the line. If you are at a conference, you are the face of your company and your actions reflect on that company.
- femaledev 14y ago
  Her website is called "butyouragirl" and you don't see what she has to gain by shaming men developers? She calls herself an "activist" but uses the fact that she is FEMALE to get ahead, as opposed to the quality of her work. Joan of Arc would be rolling in her grave.
  - AutoCorrect 14y ago
    butyoureagirl would be more correct, I guess she lacks judgement and a knowledge of the English language... <ducks/>
    - apetresc 14y ago
      The typo was femaledev's, not Adria's. The correct URL is butyoureagirl.com

general_failure 14y ago

You could have been a great person by just turning around and telling those guys that this is not cool. Instead you resorted to playing the 'female' card. Outright pathetic.

justin66 14y ago

Without commenting on the comment itself I'd like to note that this post is yet another example of downvoting abuse. Cut that out, people. There's nothing here that merits censorship or violates the rules. On the contrary, if the article itself is worthy of inclusion on HN then the interaction between Hank and Adria certainly is.

themightykevdog 14y ago

You can do just about anything you want, it's the way you do it that matters. You went over the line when you publicly posted their photo, plain and simple. And your defense of possible misunderstanding is, to be blunt, far short of logical. You don't know that he didn't defend himself to the organizers and that they rejected his defense (unless I've missed something).

antihero 14y ago

How exactly are forking and dongle innuendos offensive to women? What right do you have to be offended by them other than that you have ears?

jonhendry 14y ago
You've never heard of a double entendre? How many terrible jokes have been made along the lines of "I'd like to put my hard drive in her RAM slot". Jokes like that were old and corny 20 years ago. HINT: though it uses the terms "hard drive" and "RAM slot", as used, they don't actually refer to a hard drive or a RAM slot. It's entirely reasonable to know what forking and dongles mean in the normal sense, yet to hear comments about "forking" and "big dongles" and understand they're not being used to refer to the usual things.
- antihero 14y ago
  There's a massive difference between general innuendo and innuendo directed at someone. Yes the jokes are corny, but since when have corny jokes been grounds for complete humiliation and losing your job?
- sp332 14y ago
  First, the "forking" joke was not sexual. It referred to actually forking a repo on github. Second, is the fact that guys have "dongles" offensive to women?

xxxxxxxxxxx 14y ago

"I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively." if you're serious about that, promote this petition as hard as you did the damaging photo: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/374/323/889/give-alex-reid-his-job-back/ http://www.thepetitionsite.com/374/323/889/give-alex-reid-hi...

mr-hank 14y ago
Its worth pointing out I'm not Alex, he had no part in this situation and is still employed. The gesture is kind none the less.
- zshprompt 14y ago
  Mr Hank, due to your privacy being violated in this crazy creepy manner I was able to find who you are. Good luck to you sir. There are a lot of men and women who are on your side. One thing I will say is, that your former employer is crazy not to have your back. Is there no way they can change their mind? (I am not sure you would want your job back because they really let you down)
- mathnode 14y ago
  Now she has been fired, you two should start up your own tech company.
- citadrianne 14y ago
  Hi there, reporter for The Verge here. We're doing a story on this and need to speak to you off the record. Email me at adrianne@theverge.com. Thanks.
  - floridacoding 14y ago
    Do you really think he is going to respond to a female in light of what happened? Especially to a female named ADRIAnne? :) Just a little immature humor there. :)

bobthecrusher 14y ago

Fuck you, you eavesdropped on a private conversation and then published ONE COMMENT TAKEN COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT on the internet, hoping for a lynch mob to form.

dontmindme 14y ago
How, exactly, was it a private conversation? Do you not understand how social interaction works? And are you so flagrantly ignorant that you like to throw around the phrase "lynch mob" without knowing what it means, or do you really think that repeating part of a public conversation is similar to gathering a mob to murder someone? Must be nice to lead such a sheltered life that you can so easily hallucinate about lynching.

D_Alex 14y ago

I am curious why this comment has no downvote arrow.

hackinthebochs 14y ago
Comments over 24 hours old lose it.
SilasX 14y ago
Hey, I never get a downvote arrow ...

ericjeepn 14y ago

A known "Developer Evangelist" with a large following that's been featured on mainstream media tweets a picture of someone in the technology field that has offended her, as opposed to simply confronting him, or just notifying the conference management. You were very aware that there would be repercussions. No offering of suggestions, ideas or mentoring to help solve a problem, simply call the masses and authorities to deal with it. I realize that my opinion doesn't matter to you, however I think that you were wrong in this instance.

curiousme 14y ago

That is a dead link for people from Europe.

DurMcHur 14y ago

"I'm a developer evangelist" Anyone who makes up a title like this is an ego-maniac, regardless of their sex. Good thing that the start-up you work for is crap and won't get acquired any time soon. Once you hit the job market, HR departments and hiring managers will remember your name and I doubt you will get many call-backs.

amacide 14y ago
"I'm a developer evangelist"... Anyone who makes up a title like this is an ego-maniac, regardless of their sex. +1000
ceejayoz 14y ago
"Developer evangelist" is a very common title for folks who manage developer relations. Apple, Google, MS, etc. all have them. It's unlikely she made up the title.

moolcool 14y ago

>developer evangelist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SoWNMNKNeM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SoWNMNKNeM

TY812 14y ago

> For context, I'm a developer evangelist. Actually, no, you are not. You are - by definition - a terrorist, applying unlawful use of force or violence against people with the intention of intimidating or coercing groups of people and societies for ideological or political reasons. The fact that you do have supporters shows the sad state of affairs this world is in.

andybak 14y ago
My, how flexible the word 'terrorist' has become.
- ffuck 14y ago
  how flexible the word "evangelist" has become
KuraFire 14y ago
Wow, you give tech a bad name both by your massively offensive accusation, as well as your completely wrong use of the word "terrorist" thereby reducing its significance. The thing showing a sad state of affairs here is you.
- colinbm 14y ago
  Considering how completely wrong use/interpretation of the words sexism/sexist, thereby reducing their significance, is what this is all about, it seems apt.
- TY812 14y ago
  I am following the definition given by many dictionaries (and, by the way, 28 Code of Federal Regulations Section 0.85). Terrorists don't all wear beards and have TNT strapped around their waists while piloting hijacked planes, you know?
  - onceuponapriori 14y ago
    I think what she did was awful. But I have a hard time understanding how you cant see that her actions don't meet all of the conditions found in the definition you yourself supplied.

IanCal 14y ago

> The forking joke set the stage for the dongle joke. What actually was the 'forking joke'? Because he seems to claim there wasn't one, but you think there was. He's made a claim about what he said, do you remember what it was?

mrprickly 14y ago

>For context, I'm a cunt FTFY

cheez 14y ago

Your inability to take a joke is dangerous for the public image of whichever company you're evangelizing for. And this after you make "sock down your pants" jokes on Twitter. The irony is delicious. I hope the OP sues you for reproducing his likeness without his permission. PyCon is, after all, a private gathering.

bherms 14y ago
I would almost contend there are grounds for a defamation/libel (something... not a lawyer) suit here as well considering her comments have severely hurt his reputation and caused him to lose his job.
- KuraFire 14y ago
  Cheez and bherms: neither of you guys understand the legal system very well, do you?
  - bherms 14y ago
    To be fair, not many people do, and lawsuits have been filed and won for much less.
  - cheez 14y ago
    Well, this is "Hacker News" and not "Groklaw". There needs to be some recourse to the public accusation. If I was him, I would have just "noped" my way out of it. Nope, I never said it. Nope, she misheard me. Nope. Nope. Nope. Fuck you, pay me.
littlegiantcap 14y ago
She works for Sendgrid.
- cheez 14y ago
  Ah, I hope they realize what a liability they have on their hands. For example, imagine if a developer ACCIDENTALLY looked at her while walking by. Can you say sexual harassment lawsuit? LOL. This woman is bad news.

greendata 14y ago

You're an developer evangelist for Sendgrid. I can't believe you have not been fired for tweeting those pictures and getting those developers fired without even talking to them. Since Sendgrid continues to employee you, I'd encourage any developers using Sendgrid to switch to an alternative like Postmark or Mailgun. Let Sendgrid know why you are switching. For the record, I agree with you that those jokes were inappropriate, but what you did was orders of magnitude more inappropriate and unprofessional.

francopd 14y ago
Good job SendGrid, they fired her right away!

rollo_tommasi 14y ago

You're what Jaron Lanier means when he talks about "digital Maoism".

camperman 14y ago

Care to explain why you're allowed to make dick jokes but they can't?

cheez 14y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_and_gender_feminism#Gender_feminism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_and_gender_feminism#Gend...

jongraehl 14y ago

You smiled while you took the photo you planned to shame them with. Enjoy your notoriety.

hpguy 14y ago

What a hypocrite. You can joke dirty publicly, but when it comes to 2 friends making private jokes with one another, you become Joan of Arc, a heroine, an activist. Well "calculated" though, I have to say.

beedogs 14y ago

Great job ruining someone's career because you're an oversensitive -- and apparently hypocritical -- imbecile. Maybe you should work on that.

askien 14y ago

You can tell sexist jokes on twitter (a far more public place) but when overhear two people having a private joke, you use your public image to SHAME these people and ultimately cost, at least one of them, their job. You acted with malice and deception as you took their picture smiling. Nice nice nice! :) You should be in politics! You are damaging Sendgrid's image by making a complete fool out of yourself in public... I find your actions disgusting. My personal opinion of you is VERY low. I won't use Sendgrid's products anymore. How's that for an overreaction?

emereld 14y ago

Allow me to make a small addendum. You are not a 'developer evangelist' you are an 'arbitrary evangelist'. You've applied internal frustration in a seemingly random manner and you refuse to see it. I think you've gone too far to apologise now, but you should try and think hard about whether you were right at all to do this.

peripetylabs 14y ago

If I may ask, what made you think it was appropriate to take a picture of this person and distribute it without his permission or the permission of the venue?

fnordfnordfnord 14y ago

Why can't you just turn around and say one of the following: Shhhhh. Take it outside. You're not funny, and I can't hear the talk. I'm going to call the conference police if you don't quiet yourselves. Or something to that effect? If somebody persists after you ask them to quit, fine, blast away.

mymulti 14y ago
Of course not. The only logical course of action is to post pictures of them on twitter and get them fired.
sp332 14y ago
The guy apologized, and everyone was satisfied at that point. No idea why PlayHaven fired him but that wasn't something she asked for.
- fein 14y ago
  PlayHaven only fired their employee due to the public exposure this all received, which started with Adria's tweet.
  - singleuse 14y ago
    The tweet itself is arguably going overboard but the accompanying picture is the real issue, this is the element of public exposure which made all this going way way overboard. It's actually a serious offense and even a crime in other parts of the world, the kind that can send you in jail for quite some time, and on many websites and communities this could get you a ban.
  - fandoth 14y ago
    Fein is 100% correct. The issued a public statement.

rdtsc 14y ago

> Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. No but I will be speaking up and attacking you. > bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. And by constructively you mean maybe they'll post his picture on the billboard and call him publicly an "ass clown". So yeah, how about them insults? Is PyCon a conference where taking face shots of attendees and posting them for the whole world to see then calling them ass clown? > to not to work with you on this and Not to work with him on what. What kind of double speak is that? "Don't use toilet humor when talking to your co-workers at a conference". Yes, I hope his employer 'works' hard with him on that. > I also hear about the experiences of women working at startups. Do you hear about backstabbing, public humiliations and taking advantage situations for personal profit at the expense of other's lives? > Sometimes the answer is our API or not answering email after 7pm while other times it about being assertive and shedding impostor syndrome. Sometimes the answer is public flogging in a middle of the street. > The forking joke set the stage for the dongle joke. You are a developer's evangelist and you don't know what "forking" a repo is. You might consider filing a lawsuit against Github and Linus Torvalds because that's all they do. One invented it then other place is where forking happens all day every day. > It sounds like if I'd said something about the forking you would have denied it having a sexual association. And that is because ... it doesn't. Your title has 'developer' in it, you should at least find out what forking really means.

maxcan 14y ago

If you really feel regret for this, you should connect him with SendGrid and try to get him hired there.

VRS00 14y ago

What you did was pretty fucking retarded. You took a joke way out of proportion; then instead of telling the guy off- you took a picture of the guy and post it on twitter for the whole planet to see. Firing the guy and having his three kids go fucking hungry. Forget the guy here for a moment. YOU'VE JUST FUCKED OVER THREE KIDS OVER A DAMN JOKE. For "feminism"? What the fucking hell is wrong with you!? You're the reason why it's considered a joke in the western world. You have power, so do many other women. Hell, if you want to see female oppression, look at the middle east. Look in a number of third world countries. In the states a single accusation, not convicted or charged- ACCUSATION of rape will land a guy in prison. You have power, and I've seen others abuse that to their own ends to the point to where it became an issue that's stands here today. Of real rapists getting away and the innocent behind bars with their lives ruined. You're almost as bad as them... as you reinforce stereotypes and set bad examples for the rest of us that are fighting for real equality. My only advice to you is to grow thicker skin, you're not a delicate flower- you're a fucking human being that should be able to handle a seemingly 'uncomfortable' situation without generating drama like a fucking 14 year old in high school.

SimonSam 14y ago

God, you must be the worst developer evangelist out there. I would never, ever want to work with you. I would never, ever want to hire you.

dahauns 14y ago

> I decided instead to accept it bothered me and took action based on the PyCon Code of Conduct. Weeell, except you didn't. Or did you miss the part about how PyCon doesn't condone public shaming?

tripleggg 14y ago

"I'm a developer evangelist" This is code for professional bullshitter. We (the real developers) don't need any "evangelizing." Our work speaks for itself.

commentor 14y ago
FYI - she took your picture and published it, without a model release . . . technically, per the letter of the law - that is illegal . . . just sayin'
- crystallize 14y ago
  Her taking a picture and posting it to Twitter (which is different from publishing) is not illegal. She didn't need a model release. The only time you need a model release is if you intend to sell the photograph of a person to be used for commercial purposes. You know, sell the picture to a company for the company to use it in an advertisement. At that time, a model release is required. No monetary gain was acquired in this situation, so why would a release be required? Know Copyright and publishing laws when you comment... just sayin'
  - dingledongle 14y ago
    The "word on the street" is that she uses Twitter to drive up her blog traffic, so if that can be proven in a civil case you're wrong about that. It will be hard to prove for a normal person. But if you read Amanda Blum's article about this you'll see that she has done stuff like this before. If a lawyer can build a case around an established pattern of using twitter to monetize traffic. All they have to do is subpoena her blog monetization records and her twitter posts to establish her intent to commercialize the photo. Some expert testimony from Amanda and there could be a case here. But does she have enough money to make it worth going after? I don't know. But it would probably be satisfying to the victims in this to watch her try and fake cry in court about how she was "doing it for the children" when we all know she was doing it for the web traffic.
  - dingledongle 14y ago

jluster 14y ago

Adria, in all this please take one thing from me. Please do not use the term "trigger" for things that make you angry or uncomfortable or sad. Triggers are powerful psychological events, things that make people near-catatonic, unable to act, have physical and psychological repercussions. A rape survivor, a soldier or police officer or survivor of domestic abuse won't smile, snap a picture, and use their significant power to shame someone if "triggered". Quite in the contrary. Your use of the word sets the stage for people to presume that someone who has a trigger could have "discussed it out" as you could have done. And that is demeaning and dangerous to everyone who really has psychological triggers.

neefsck 14y ago
I would just like to add my agreement with this. A "trigger" is something which leaves the sufferer (and it is suffering) with absolutely NO choice in how we react.
- maradydd 14y ago
  I'd argue that in some cases there's a degree of control that can be developed, but also that this seems to be more the case for sensory triggers than for psychological ones.

SallySinep 14y ago

Adria, can you please do us all a huge favor and provide for us the exact wording of both the "dongle" and "forking" remarks that were made? All we have so far are assertions that these remarks were sexual in nature, but not evidence. I'm not saying I'd be surprised if one, or both of them were (knowing all too well the way men sometimes are, at these conferences). But really, it shouldn't be too hard for you to just tell us exactly what you heard, along with any supporting context that you feel would help us understand your position.

mormy 14y ago
errm no. because there was no "forking" joke. There was I'd fork that guy's repo. If you don't know what forking and repo means, well to put it bluntly you're out of place @ a dev conf. I fail to see how either of which is sexist, although if strained may be sexual. And also Adria made the much more lewd big dongle joke herself on Twitter a while back... It's all in comments here
- SallySinep 14y ago
  If you don't know what forking and repo means, If you think that, you're reading way too much into my question.

sr3d 14y ago

You're one childish person. You should behave like a grown up, and learn to speak up correctly. Here in the US there's something called "Freedom of Speech" and if someone at a public event cannot make a private joke that somehow overheard by some crazy, cookoo person, then you got it all wrong. And you are deserved to be forked for being a nasty person. And no, your repos on Github (if you have any) are not even worth to be starred.

simonrobb 14y ago
I want to believe that I'm misinterpreting your comment about "deserved to be forked", but in the context of this discussion it sounds like a truly crude, offensive and sexist thing to say. I am disgusted. There is no place for a comment with the implications here - in any context, at any time. If I've misinterpreted, I apologize - but next time be more careful with how you choose your words.
- singleuse 14y ago
  It seems to me it was a threat either of being stabbed with forks or sexually assaulted, neither is acceptable. This guy has all rights to feel angry about what she did, but this is not a welcome comment and he should probably be reported to the law enforcement authorities.
dinkumthinkum 14y ago
Far be from me to defend Adria Richards but "freedom of speech" means something different than what you think. The government cannot infringe on your right to express your opinion, etc. Also, the violent insinuation as no place on HN or anywhere.
oracuk 14y ago
I am constantly surprised at the bipolar nature of HN. It ranges from intelligent and considered posts about technology to unpleasant playground posts relating to politics and especially to sexual politics. I am usually able to sigh, roll my eye and close the browser tab but your comment 'deserved to be forked' demanded a response. Your post wasn't intelligent, wasn't constructive and offended me.

lilly26 14y ago

Why were you too afraid to confront them directly and privately about your concerns? You smiled at them when you too the picture...

dinkumthinkum 14y ago

I think the basic problem here that you are a documented fraud. You claimed to be some kind of Joan of Arc "minus the visions." Honestly, it seems to be it is more like "plus greater delusions of grandeur." You seem to have jumped on this as a way to drive your popularity; you were just too short sighted to see the backlash, I suppose. Perhaps, you enjoy some of the backlash because it may allow you to pivot toward some other activist role. I just don't think you are, in any way, authentic about this incident or other incidents. My problem is there is a clear pattern and smugness about the way you project yourself. I don't think you speak for all women and I don't think women want you to speak for them. You would take any criticism as simple victim blaming and that is unfortunate because it can be difficult, rhetorically, to argue against. However, I think many people can see through this veneer. As well, it could be innocent but your blog URL is yet another a signal to me; I don't think you intend well for any of this. You are looking for any issue for which you can champion yourself as some sort of Betty Friedan; unfortunately, you are no Betty Friedan, Sandra Day O'Connor or any other great female leader. Others are focusing on whether or not you can take a joke or if you should have discussed it with the people you publicly shamed instead. We know you weren't really offended, that wasn't the point. This was a prop for you. This is unfair to women that face will discrimination, prejudice, and so on that we should all denounce. This is just opportunism potentially gone awry. I could applaud you for actually coming to HN and making a statement but what you wrote is just smug and serving.

singleuse 14y ago
She was most probably not shortsighted about the upcoming backlash as she said herself on HN a year and a half ago: adriarichards 473 days ago We all should realize it's Twitter, home of public flame wars. It seems she had a pretty good understanding of what she did, and from this we can assume she acted with intent.
torin 14y ago
Excellent incisive post.

fakeer 14y ago

>>See you next year. I doubt they would invite you or let you attend next year. If they do, they shall have to rent a bigger venue just to make room for you and the empty seats around you. Not joking. I wouldn't want to be near you, leave alone having a conversation. Not the hate, it's fear to be fired or maybe sued for sexual harassment.

lilly26 14y ago

Adria, your actions are not "leaning in". Please, step back.

gsp613 14y ago

did you seriously shamelessly plug your blog?

fandoth 14y ago

You set women back 20 years by standing up to what exactly? You can't handle two men making jokes amongst themselves? Yet your twitter makes similar jokes with your friends? Your friend on twitter argued it was because of an established relationship and context. I would argue that is the exact same situation with the two men. The only variable in this entire situation is YOU Adria. It makes me sick that you have used your social media skills to demonize these men, but your actions are truly devious and evil. Pycon code of conduct? LOL. That man has a family, and lost his job for an alleged joke to a friend. Furthermore, this man is taking the high road and not fighting back. Sounds to me that if you had spoken to him privately and told him you were offended, then he prolly would have provided you with a sincere apology. Instead, you ruined his life, career, etc. People like you are leeches on society IMO. Hope I didn't make any sexual references you might be offended by.

fandoth 14y ago

I hope over the course of this next year you become jobless and blacklisted. I do not even know this guy, but YOU ruined his life, not the people that fired him. You acknowledged it yourself that a twitter firestorm erupted demonizing this man. THAT firestorm was started and fueled by you. Facts are this:You are a joke, you will amount to nothing historically, your mark on history will be as a woman that ruined the lives of three children supported by their hardworking father, you are a social media tool, dongles-computers-n' forking-oh my! I honestly hope the tone of this story begins demonizing YOU over the next few days and weeks. Furthermore, I wish Hank the best, you have learned that there are @$$h@t$ like Adria in this world and to avoid them at all costs. I wish you luck Hank. Adria, well you already destroyed your reputation, LOL, you do not need my help.

aftermath 14y ago

> Yes, this time I decided I didn't want to argue my perspective. So arguing or reporting him were your only options? Would not a simple "shush" have sufficed? You have some very serious man-hating anger issues.