10 ms·

Lenovo unveils new ThinkPad design

93 points by kunai 14y ago

heifetz 14y ago
people still use vga ports?
- jez0990 14y ago
  crappy projectors are everywhere :( edit: and I've only ever had bad experiences with [X]->VGA adapters
- yuhong 14y ago
  I think AMD and Intel will get rid of chipset support for analog VGA video by 2015, and this includes DVI-I. This was announced by Intel back in 2010.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- dmm 14y ago
  The main use of video ports is hooking up to random projectors right? For that purpose vga is probably still best.
- schuke 14y ago
  My guess is that if you're a businessman travelling around to do presentations at different places all the time, you probably need maximum compatibility. Sort of a differentiating factor. It also has a LAN port, of which one might ask the same question. Just a guess though.
  - ciupicri 14y ago
    You can't compare wired Ethernet with the wireless one. The wired one is more reliable, faster and a bit more secure.
- bgruber 14y ago
  yeah, people still use vga ports. and when you plug a projector into them, they actually work the first time! even with linux! crazy, i know. until recently, in our office, the only person whose laptop always worked right with the various projectors was the guy with linux on a thinkpad. macbooks with displayports were reliably unreliable. now the situation has reversed, because the new thinkpads are x1 carbons w/ displayports, and for the macs we hooked up an apple tv to the projector and use AirPlay, which behaves much, much better than the cable ever did.
- wklauss 14y ago
  A lot of people would argue you that, yes, its still widely used. In my experience not so much and its disappearing so quickly that they could have got away with some kind of HDMI + an adapter included on the box. IMHO they should have made the sacrifice.
webwanderings 14y ago
Don't know about 431 but I absolutely do not like them moving the keys around in 420. The PrntScrn is no longer where it used to be. The Home, End, PgUp, Down keys are all at different places.
- acabal 14y ago
  This drives me mad. At least Lenovo kept the buttons. Other laptops like Apple and now Dell have dropped them entirely. And for what? "Minimalism" or "elegance" I guess. I'm going to have to hang on to my aging Dell for as long as I can, just for the keyboard :(
  - 4ad 14y ago
    But it didn't even keep the buttons.
mattdennewitz 14y ago
this is very, very nice, but centering the trackpad to have to align with the trackpoint feels like an awkward mistake
- Stratoscope 14y ago
  What makes it an awkward mistake? Doesn't look as balanced and centered? It seems kind of essential if they're using the touchpad top edge as a replacement for the TrackPoint buttons.
kjhughes 14y ago
See also earlier HN discussion on the new ThinkPad: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5392298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5392298
Aloha 14y ago
I may order one when its refresh time. If I dont like it, I know I like the MBP with Retina, I do however like the touch point more than a trackpad.
baggachipz 14y ago
The laptop has only one look for Christ's sake! Blue Steel, Ferrari, Latigra? They're the same face! Doesn't anyone notice this?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
mikeandtalisha 14y ago
I can't believe they call out rotating the logo as a new feature.
- r00fus 14y ago
  It's like they're saying "We're almost as good as Apple". Aside from the 180deg. hinge, is there any innovation that they've listed that's not an innovation previously done by other vendors (like Apple)? Seriously? Why parrot that you're behind the times?
  - 4ad 14y ago
    The 180° is not an innovation. All ThinkPads I ever had had this feature, and I had many ThinkPads, around 10 still in use.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
If Lenovo put the Chrome Pixel display on a T4xx machine I would buy one in a femptosecond.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
And yet the 13" screen on the 11" body (tiny bezel) Dell XPS still has a higher-res screen than this 14" screen. WAKE UP LENOVO, I really wanted to have a hard decision when choosing to replace my Macbook Air, but I guess the XPS 13 is an easy choice. Your X1 Carbon is equally gorgeous with an equally crappy screen. Now if only any store anywhere carried the Chromebook Pixel so I could check it out... edit: After more reading, rumor has it of a retina MBA 2013. Maybe I'll wait it out.
- ericabiz 14y ago
  "Your X1 Carbon is equally gorgeous with an equally crappy screen." I believe you have incorrect information. I own a Thinkpad X1 Carbon. Its screen resolution is 1600x900, which is not only higher than the typical 1366x768 resolution found on most laptops, but it's a nice resolution that doesn't require switching into and out of "retina" mode. I'm quite happy with my X1 Carbon, FWIW. My favorite feature is the rapid charge, which charges your laptop to 80% battery in 30 minutes or less. This is a laptop where it's actually worth hauling out the AC adapter when you have 10 minutes before you board your next flight. Very awesome feature.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    >It's a nice resolution that doesn't require switching into and out of "retina" mode. I use an OS that fortunately isn't encumbered with those problems. I use a 2560x1440 monitor, a 2560x1440 tablet, and a 720p phone, the fact that a 14" screen is inferior to all of those is embarrassing. It does make a difference, especially when I'm considering switching from my MBA (which already has a higher density than the X1 in question) to an XPS 13 that has a full HD (1080p) display. I can assure you, I would love more than anything else to buy the Touchpad X1. I don't like Dell's quality or customer service. The EFI implementation on Macs is piss-poor and their firmware doesn't support USB3 (you have to boot OS X/Ubuntu and have the drivers kick in). My first "real" laptop was a Thinkpad before they stopped making Thinkpads. But frankly, the screen is a deal break. The screen on my T61P was the worst screen I've ever owned, and I'm not buying another until it's competitive with the equivalent competition. I'm sadly well aware that many other laptop manufacturers skimp on displays, but both Acer and ASUS offer full HD laptops that are in the same spec/dimension/price range.
jordanb 14y ago
I've been a loyal Thinkpad user for more than a decade. There are three things that have kept me buying new thinkpads: The keyboard, the trackpoint, and the high degree of serviceability. I recently got a T-530 and was extremely disappointed with the changes made to the keyboard. The chiclet change was lame, but it was something I could ignore. The changes to the layout are a complete disaster. Important keys are gone, and other keys are poorly positioned. I joked that the next version thinkpad will eliminate the trackpoint and be as non-servicable as a Macbook. Well, it looks like I underestimated them. They didn't eliminate the trackpoint. They just took the buttons away... My next computer won't be a thinkpad.
- johnbender 14y ago
  I believe the trackpoint buttons are still there at the top of the trackpad. At least that was my reading of the post: "We unified the clickpad by integrating the trackpoint buttons into the elegant glass touchpad..." I sincerely hope they never discard the trackpoint, no matter how many times The Verge laments it's "confusing" presence.
  - javert 14y ago
    We unified the clickpad by integrating the trackpoint buttons into the elegant glass touchpad, making it appear even larger and more streamline. The trackpad now has five buttons which you can customize for Windows 8 gestures via the device driver. Hardcore long-time ThinkPad fan. This breaks the way the computer is used. I don't even know what I'll do. The only other quality hardware maker I know is Apple.
    - gokhan 14y ago
      Here's a comic for people on this thread: http://xkcd.com/1172/ http://xkcd.com/1172/ Lenovo, or any other manufacturer, will not keep producing gadgets for your exact same specification for the rest of your professional life. Actually, what they come up with in the first place was not designed by your specs, you got used to the gadget in time. Now it seems it's time to start using another one, getting familiar with it, and having some uncomfortable one or two weeks.
jlgreco 14y ago
I absolutely despise the removal of the trackpoint buttons. If I wanted a Mac, I'd buy a fucking Mac. Whatever happened to not alienating long time thinkpad users?
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  Whatever happened to not alienating long time thinkpad users? Presumably long time thinpad users switched to macs, is what happened.
  - Stratoscope 14y ago
    One of the things those long time ThinkPad users love about their machines is the TrackPoint [1]. There's no TrackPoint in a Mac, so I think the steadfast ThinkPad fans are among the last people you'd find switching to Macs. There is a decent ThinkPad USB keyboard [2] that works with Macs; I use one with mine. The TrackPoint response isn't as good as it is on a ThinkPad with Windows, though. And there's no way to get a MacBook of any sort with a TrackPoint. So I prefer using my ThinkPads except when I need to test on the Mac. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=love+trackpoint https://www.google.com/search?q=love+trackpoint [2] http://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-USB-Keyboard-with-TrackPoint/dp/B002ONCC6G http://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-USB-Keyboard-with-TrackPoint/...
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - pkamb 14y ago
      For what it's worth, I use one of those ThinkPad external keyboards with my Mac. It's a great solution for those of us who can't work without TrackPoints.
  - javert 14y ago
    No, that was not an option because of the track point. Now that the track point is ruined, it's an option.
old-gregg 14y ago
I have two nearly new Thinkpads right now and I don't need a 3rd laptop. But with this shit hitting the market soon, I am contemplating ordering a T530 and perhaps an x230 in top configurations and keep them in a closet for future use. After this pinnacle of Lenovo engineering goes on sale there won't be a single laptop on the market worth using. Not sure what I think of Apple right now. On one hand, they catapulted the laptop designers around the world into producing this crap. On the other hand, by creating the iPad they've started the process of moving consumers off laptops into dedicated facebook terminals AKA tablets, so perhaps the high-res IPS screens with quality keyboards+trackpads will soon be offered again for a premium price. I am rooting for Dell here. Now when Lenovo is gone, their Precision series is probably the closest one to take advantage of this. Does anyone want to apply to YC with a novel idea: make computers for people who make money using computers?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- kunai 14y ago
  Does anyone want to apply to YC with a novel idea: make computers for people who make money using computers? I actually thought about this. A nice, rugged computer with a good keyboard, sturdy construction, great pointing stick hardware and 16:10 display. All of which ThinkPad just isn't right now. Unfortunately, my financial options and also my experience is very limited in this regard. If anyone proposes a project like this on Kickstarter, I'll be the first to throw money at it.
  - Stratoscope 14y ago
    Unfortunately, the "great pointing stick hardware" will likely run into some IBM patents. None of the other machines with pointing sticks have ever been able to get the same natural response as a TrackPoint, I believe partly because of these patents. What a deal: Lenovo doesn't want to make professional machines any more, but they won't likely let anyone else use the TrackPoint patents.
    - 14y ago
orangethirty 14y ago
That's not a Lenovo, that's a Toshiba. Great. The one computer no one had managed to fuck up.
grannyg00se 14y ago
" The trackpad now has five buttons which you can customize for Windows 8 gestures via the device driver. There are subtle red lines on the surface indicating the trackpoint buttons. " I'm going to keep calm and assume that these trackpad buttons work perfectly while using the trackpoint. At least they didn't change the key laout again. I just got used to the new layout. It takes more effort to use though. There's a horrible wrist-crank that goes on while trying to page down with a pinky. Anyway, I'm hoping my next computer will be little more than a keyboard (thinkpad travelnav) with something like a raspberry pi at the bottom and hdmi display glasses.
Rickasaurus 14y ago
I can't believe they left the pageup/pagedown right near the arrow keys. I hit those by accident several times a day.
- johnward 14y ago
  This is the absolute worst 'feature' on a thinkpad. When browsing those buttons are forward/back. Other that I'm not sure why they can't get a decent trackpad. Even though synaptics makes both the thinkpad and macbook trackpads, the mac is far better. It must come down to software/drivers.
- pkamb 14y ago
  Why have they ditched the "big delete key" redesigned keyboard they were touting a couple years ago?
signed0 14y ago
"Nothing material-wise has changed with the hinges, and we kept them visible so you still know strong the laptop is." Translation: "Don't pay any attention to the body that is made out of cheap plastic, look at these shiny metal hinges!"
lathropd 14y ago
OK... Having trouble loving this. I'm an MBP fella but for the past few years Thinkpads have been the PCs for which I've secretly lusted. Lenovo, becoming more Mac-ish only makes long for you less. Wouldn't a better monitor be a better thing than flipping the logo?
jim_h 14y ago
I think the high point of the Thinkpad line was around the T61/X61t. They were fast, durable and had nice high resolution display. I was desperately waiting for an update to my X61t w/ 1400x1050 display and no such option come from them and after many years, still none! Such a disappointment. I saw the photos in the article and then noticed they removed the trackpad buttons. They're moving away from why I liked them before.. that's fine, but they're not making big enough hardware improvements to offset those changes.
- ericabiz 14y ago
  The Thinkpad X1 Carbon is 1600x900. Surprised that is not that well-known, as you're the second person on this thread I've noticed with that misconception. I upgraded from my old X200s to the X1 Carbon and it's great.
  - krsunny 14y ago
    I've been wanting this model for months. How is the video performance on it? Movies, games etc?
    - ericabiz 14y ago
      I'm going to say "fine", as I've honestly never noticed an issue at all. I still do video editing on my desktop as it's way faster. I don't play games, so I can't answer that one for you.
  - 4ad 14y ago
    1600x900 is lower than 1920x1200 and even lower than 1680x1050, which older models had. It's also lower than 2880x1800 found in a competitor model. It is also a TN display, not an IPS one.
dylanz 14y ago
Lenovo needs to slowly remove the bizarre and seemingly random vendor/OS specific features of their machines, and simplify (if that's an option). For example, I know there is an Intel processor in the machine an Windows as a default install, so please don't put hard to remove stickers on my machine. I'm a big Lenovo fan, but they need to take a step back. Side note, PM me if you want to buy a nearly never used maxed out X220.
- Stratoscope 14y ago
  Funny thing about the stickers: my current two ThinkPads (W520 and X220 Tablet) had three stickers each: one was Intel, I think the other was Microsoft, and the last one was Lenovo Enhanced Experience. The Intel and Microsoft stickers came off easily and cleanly. (Pro tip: Use the plastic toothpick from a Swiss Army Knife. The flat point is just right to get under the corner of a sticker and lift it loose. Then the rest of the sticker is easy to peel off.) The Lenovo Enhanced Experience sticker? Quite a bit more tenacious. It was a real pain to get it loose at all, and then it left a bunch of residue behind. Some kind of Enhanced Experience! I hate stickers.
imrehg 14y ago
I really hope they will sell this with no OS. My current computer is a two-year old X201, the only brand that sold laptops without windows, it was more powerful and even cheaper model... I love it, and works beautifully with ArchLinux. Had to service twice (the monitor cable broke once because of the lots of opening and closing, and the fan died once), and maybe will have to fix my headphone jack, but it was always painless, free and speedy in the service centre....
- moonlimb 14y ago
  do you know how well other thinkpads work with ArchLinux? I'm looking into x230, X1 carbon, and T430s
  - imrehg 14y ago
    I think they should be all fine. Here's some others' info about it, partly from the (excellent) Arch Wiki, and from a blog: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ThinkPad_X230 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ThinkPad_X230 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1 http://blog.burntsushi.net/lenovo-thinkpad-t430-archlinux http://blog.burntsushi.net/lenovo-thinkpad-t430-archlinux
jim_h 14y ago
I have the Thinkpad X22, X40, T40, T60p, X61t. After the X61t, I saw nothing remotely compelling from their Thinkpad line.
ciupicri 14y ago
> we want to retain the right amount of ThinkPad-ness that satisfies our loyal customers who’ve always valued it while modernizing ThinkPad under the influences of consumerization’s focus on simplicity, interoperability and connectedness Why not just use/create another brand like the IdeaPad?
- whichdan 14y ago
  Isn't that what they did with the Thinkpad Edge?
neonkiwi 14y ago
I really like ThinkPads, but I think if they count rotating the logo to face up while open as a new feature, they should also include the feature of memorable model names. T431s? That's a SKU, not a model. Lenovo is experimenting with it's consumer-grade IdeaPad line—there's a Yoga, for instance—but it can still feel like a business machine with a memorable name.
- javert 14y ago
  Disagree. What could you possibly call a computer, that's not just arbitrary and dumb? Yoga is one of the worst names I've ever heard for a computer.
piyush_soni 14y ago
That ugly trackpoint (that red dot in the middle of keyboard) and that extremely irritating swapped position of Fn and Ctrl keys are the two things that keep me away from this otherwise excellent laptop. (Though the Fn and Ctrl keys can now be swapped from BIOS, but why? )
- grannyg00se 14y ago
  Ugly trackpoint? Are you trolling? Trackpoint is one of the most significant reasons people buy a thinkpad over any other trackpad only laptop. I've heard the ctrl and fn placement is an issue for many people, but I don't understand why you'd want the more frequently used key further away than a hardly ever used key. Or maybe people actually use fn more often than ctrl? That doesn't seem likely.
  - MBlume 14y ago
    Don't think further away. Think corners. Corners are easy to hit, you know where they are. Second from the corner requires more effort. Same reasoning as "hot corners" in operating systems.
    - grannyg00se 14y ago
      I can understand that. I guess I've gotten used to the close pinky curl-under that hits Ctrl just right.
  - piyush_soni 14y ago
    I was just talking about myself and a few others. In my company people are all given a Thinkpad (no choice), and howsoever I try I can't get that to work easily - and it's definitely much slower for me than the trackpad (and it looks bad to me anyway). I know that many people find that very useful and with time people get greatly used to that trackpoint, but definitely not beginners. Ctrl key has always been the last key at the bottom row, so it's really easy to press, not sure why they would change that standard. Previously they didn't even have a BIOS setting, but they faced such a strong backlash that they had to add that. They did a survey and found out that a lot of people want that to match the industry convention.
philwelch 14y ago
I love MacBooks, but even I am a little disappointed the new ThinkPad is more like a MacBook.
azatris 14y ago
Not a big fan of the changes here either. However, I must note that this: "At the same time we added a living element to it with a new LED in the logo middle giving it a “heartbeat” of sorts. It’s functional too, showing the PC’s status of on or in sleep." This feature has always let me distinguish my high-end T420 from other cheaper, worse models which have the ugly red led. With T420 I somewhat feel like this is the last good Thinkpad of the T-series, but of course I am biased.
erikpukinskis 14y ago
They should've never ditched the blue enter key. Any machine with the 3-color IBM logo and a blue enter key is gonna be the hottest machine on the block.
jblow 14y ago
I used to buy ThinkPads all the time. But they just keep getting worse (along with all other Windows laptops). As for the new Thinkpad described in this article... lack of physical mouse buttons = instant fail. This seems like a weird style-oriented consumer move, not a business-user kind of move. I don't understand why everyone is in such a hurry to try and copy the MacBook (badly). At this point, availability of physical mouse buttons is very high in my list of selling points for a laptop. I doubt I am alone.
qompiler 14y ago
I had to laugh out loud because it still looks the same. Or was that the joke?
electrotype 14y ago
Am I the only one to actually prefere a big enter key ( http://i.imgur.com/NMwiGAR.jpg http://i.imgur.com/NMwiGAR.jpg ) to a smaller one ( http://imgur.com/G54Jua5,NMwiGAR#0 http://imgur.com/G54Jua5,NMwiGAR#0 ) ? Also, I'm one of those who want the CTRL key to be at the corner (no bios workaround).
kh_hk 14y ago
I am happy with my X60, but just in case I might fancy an upgrade, which is the last model worth of it? Maybe the X230 but the screen frame still looks too big / noticeable.
johnward 14y ago
I'm a macbook user and absolutely hate my thinkpad. However, I realize the people who love the thinkpad are all about function over form. Making the thinkpad more mac like (or consumer like or whatever) is just going to alienate the people already buying these.
wooger 14y ago
Yet again, they're pushing out 16:9 screens in a case obviously designed to take a 16:10 display. It look ridiculous. These are premium machines, they can clearly afford to get decent IPS displays produced in whatever aspect ratio they choose (as both Apple and Google have done), but they continue with this 16:9 bullshit. I'm not fond of any current laptop hardware as they're all too compromised. I second the sentiment that in a year or two it'll be possible to have a simple keyboard attached to an ARM based mini computer (raspberry pi but better), outputting to some wearable display / hooked to a monitor. This might in fact just be a phone of course. I'd love to be able to just carry a nice mini mechanical keyboard with me, rather than use laptop keyboards.
nogoodnik 14y ago
I used to have a Thinkpad T61. Best laptop I ever had. When it came time to upgrade, I looked in disbelief at the current Thinkpad line, and felt the same emptyness in my heart as when my old HP 42S calculator died and I went to HP's site to find what their RPN calculator line was up to these days. How sad it is when a line of beautiful, well-engineered machines become extinct, supplanted by mediocre, cheaper tools.
- jzawodn 14y ago
  Same. I got a MacBook Pro.
acturbo 14y ago
Using the same ThinkPad w500 for 4+ years, running 1920 x 1200 resolution. I'm utterly fed up with the consumerization of power notebooks at the expense of the needs of productivity workers. The last few years have been an outright de-evolution of screen resolutions for laptops ... i'm still waiting for a clear upgrade path. I'm a technology marketing specialist. I design graphics and develop software and websites using Adobe Creative Suite, Visual Studio, and various other apps that require lots of screen real estate. It seems like computer companies think everyone buys notebooks to watch movies. There are a millions of power users that require high resolution notebooks including engineers, CAD/CAM designers, architects, graphic designers, developers, etc. These groups form the best litmus test for determining quality wrt high-end technology. And these groups are being alienated by technology companies -- both software and hardware. This includes the latest Windows 8 craptaculous dr. jekyll mr. hyde release, along with the numerous laptop vendors all trying to shove consumer-focused technology down the throats of power users that primarily use technology to PRODUCE THINGS. The most insulting and infuriating thing is that the ThinkPad brand in particular grew famous from the loyalty of power-users like me. And instead of listening to us and delivering products that meet and exceed our needs, Lenovo (and other manufacturers) blindly chase after new consumer oriented customers at our expense. The marketing morons at these companies (i know their "work" very well) are focused on generating growth and chasing after new markets -- at all costs. That's fine. Create a new brand to do that. My advise to manufacturers of high-end products for long-term success: - Create new brands to enter new markets - Deliver high-end products that meet/exceed the needs of your most demanding customers - Evolve core brands CAREFULLY - If you don't use the product as your demanding customers do, then you don't understand the product, so you should not make drastic decisions that affect it ac

93 points by kunai 14y ago

heifetz 14y ago

people still use vga ports?

jez0990 14y ago
crappy projectors are everywhere :( edit: and I've only ever had bad experiences with [X]->VGA adapters
yuhong 14y ago
I think AMD and Intel will get rid of chipset support for analog VGA video by 2015, and this includes DVI-I. This was announced by Intel back in 2010.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
dmm 14y ago
The main use of video ports is hooking up to random projectors right? For that purpose vga is probably still best.
schuke 14y ago
My guess is that if you're a businessman travelling around to do presentations at different places all the time, you probably need maximum compatibility. Sort of a differentiating factor. It also has a LAN port, of which one might ask the same question. Just a guess though.
- ciupicri 14y ago
  You can't compare wired Ethernet with the wireless one. The wired one is more reliable, faster and a bit more secure.
bgruber 14y ago
yeah, people still use vga ports. and when you plug a projector into them, they actually work the first time! even with linux! crazy, i know. until recently, in our office, the only person whose laptop always worked right with the various projectors was the guy with linux on a thinkpad. macbooks with displayports were reliably unreliable. now the situation has reversed, because the new thinkpads are x1 carbons w/ displayports, and for the macs we hooked up an apple tv to the projector and use AirPlay, which behaves much, much better than the cable ever did.
wklauss 14y ago
A lot of people would argue you that, yes, its still widely used. In my experience not so much and its disappearing so quickly that they could have got away with some kind of HDMI + an adapter included on the box. IMHO they should have made the sacrifice.

webwanderings 14y ago

Don't know about 431 but I absolutely do not like them moving the keys around in 420. The PrntScrn is no longer where it used to be. The Home, End, PgUp, Down keys are all at different places.

acabal 14y ago
This drives me mad. At least Lenovo kept the buttons. Other laptops like Apple and now Dell have dropped them entirely. And for what? "Minimalism" or "elegance" I guess. I'm going to have to hang on to my aging Dell for as long as I can, just for the keyboard :(
- 4ad 14y ago
  But it didn't even keep the buttons.

mattdennewitz 14y ago

this is very, very nice, but centering the trackpad to have to align with the trackpoint feels like an awkward mistake

Stratoscope 14y ago
What makes it an awkward mistake? Doesn't look as balanced and centered? It seems kind of essential if they're using the touchpad top edge as a replacement for the TrackPoint buttons.

kjhughes 14y ago

See also earlier HN discussion on the new ThinkPad: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5392298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5392298

Aloha 14y ago

I may order one when its refresh time. If I dont like it, I know I like the MBP with Retina, I do however like the touch point more than a trackpad.

baggachipz 14y ago

The laptop has only one look for Christ's sake! Blue Steel, Ferrari, Latigra? They're the same face! Doesn't anyone notice this?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

mikeandtalisha 14y ago

I can't believe they call out rotating the logo as a new feature.

r00fus 14y ago
It's like they're saying "We're almost as good as Apple". Aside from the 180deg. hinge, is there any innovation that they've listed that's not an innovation previously done by other vendors (like Apple)? Seriously? Why parrot that you're behind the times?
- 4ad 14y ago
  The 180° is not an innovation. All ThinkPads I ever had had this feature, and I had many ThinkPads, around 10 still in use.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

If Lenovo put the Chrome Pixel display on a T4xx machine I would buy one in a femptosecond.

drivebyacct2 14y ago

And yet the 13" screen on the 11" body (tiny bezel) Dell XPS still has a higher-res screen than this 14" screen. WAKE UP LENOVO, I really wanted to have a hard decision when choosing to replace my Macbook Air, but I guess the XPS 13 is an easy choice. Your X1 Carbon is equally gorgeous with an equally crappy screen. Now if only any store anywhere carried the Chromebook Pixel so I could check it out... edit: After more reading, rumor has it of a retina MBA 2013. Maybe I'll wait it out.

ericabiz 14y ago
"Your X1 Carbon is equally gorgeous with an equally crappy screen." I believe you have incorrect information. I own a Thinkpad X1 Carbon. Its screen resolution is 1600x900, which is not only higher than the typical 1366x768 resolution found on most laptops, but it's a nice resolution that doesn't require switching into and out of "retina" mode. I'm quite happy with my X1 Carbon, FWIW. My favorite feature is the rapid charge, which charges your laptop to 80% battery in 30 minutes or less. This is a laptop where it's actually worth hauling out the AC adapter when you have 10 minutes before you board your next flight. Very awesome feature.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  >It's a nice resolution that doesn't require switching into and out of "retina" mode. I use an OS that fortunately isn't encumbered with those problems. I use a 2560x1440 monitor, a 2560x1440 tablet, and a 720p phone, the fact that a 14" screen is inferior to all of those is embarrassing. It does make a difference, especially when I'm considering switching from my MBA (which already has a higher density than the X1 in question) to an XPS 13 that has a full HD (1080p) display. I can assure you, I would love more than anything else to buy the Touchpad X1. I don't like Dell's quality or customer service. The EFI implementation on Macs is piss-poor and their firmware doesn't support USB3 (you have to boot OS X/Ubuntu and have the drivers kick in). My first "real" laptop was a Thinkpad before they stopped making Thinkpads. But frankly, the screen is a deal break. The screen on my T61P was the worst screen I've ever owned, and I'm not buying another until it's competitive with the equivalent competition. I'm sadly well aware that many other laptop manufacturers skimp on displays, but both Acer and ASUS offer full HD laptops that are in the same spec/dimension/price range.

jordanb 14y ago

I've been a loyal Thinkpad user for more than a decade. There are three things that have kept me buying new thinkpads: The keyboard, the trackpoint, and the high degree of serviceability. I recently got a T-530 and was extremely disappointed with the changes made to the keyboard. The chiclet change was lame, but it was something I could ignore. The changes to the layout are a complete disaster. Important keys are gone, and other keys are poorly positioned. I joked that the next version thinkpad will eliminate the trackpoint and be as non-servicable as a Macbook. Well, it looks like I underestimated them. They didn't eliminate the trackpoint. They just took the buttons away... My next computer won't be a thinkpad.

johnbender 14y ago
I believe the trackpoint buttons are still there at the top of the trackpad. At least that was my reading of the post: "We unified the clickpad by integrating the trackpoint buttons into the elegant glass touchpad..." I sincerely hope they never discard the trackpoint, no matter how many times The Verge laments it's "confusing" presence.
- javert 14y ago
  We unified the clickpad by integrating the trackpoint buttons into the elegant glass touchpad, making it appear even larger and more streamline. The trackpad now has five buttons which you can customize for Windows 8 gestures via the device driver. Hardcore long-time ThinkPad fan. This breaks the way the computer is used. I don't even know what I'll do. The only other quality hardware maker I know is Apple.
  - gokhan 14y ago
    Here's a comic for people on this thread: http://xkcd.com/1172/ http://xkcd.com/1172/ Lenovo, or any other manufacturer, will not keep producing gadgets for your exact same specification for the rest of your professional life. Actually, what they come up with in the first place was not designed by your specs, you got used to the gadget in time. Now it seems it's time to start using another one, getting familiar with it, and having some uncomfortable one or two weeks.

jlgreco 14y ago

I absolutely despise the removal of the trackpoint buttons. If I wanted a Mac, I'd buy a fucking Mac. Whatever happened to not alienating long time thinkpad users?

sliverstorm 14y ago
Whatever happened to not alienating long time thinkpad users? Presumably long time thinpad users switched to macs, is what happened.
- Stratoscope 14y ago
  One of the things those long time ThinkPad users love about their machines is the TrackPoint [1]. There's no TrackPoint in a Mac, so I think the steadfast ThinkPad fans are among the last people you'd find switching to Macs. There is a decent ThinkPad USB keyboard [2] that works with Macs; I use one with mine. The TrackPoint response isn't as good as it is on a ThinkPad with Windows, though. And there's no way to get a MacBook of any sort with a TrackPoint. So I prefer using my ThinkPads except when I need to test on the Mac. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=love+trackpoint https://www.google.com/search?q=love+trackpoint [2] http://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-USB-Keyboard-with-TrackPoint/dp/B002ONCC6G http://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-USB-Keyboard-with-TrackPoint/...
  - deleted 14y ago
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  - pkamb 14y ago
    For what it's worth, I use one of those ThinkPad external keyboards with my Mac. It's a great solution for those of us who can't work without TrackPoints.
- javert 14y ago
  No, that was not an option because of the track point. Now that the track point is ruined, it's an option.

old-gregg 14y ago

I have two nearly new Thinkpads right now and I don't need a 3rd laptop. But with this shit hitting the market soon, I am contemplating ordering a T530 and perhaps an x230 in top configurations and keep them in a closet for future use. After this pinnacle of Lenovo engineering goes on sale there won't be a single laptop on the market worth using. Not sure what I think of Apple right now. On one hand, they catapulted the laptop designers around the world into producing this crap. On the other hand, by creating the iPad they've started the process of moving consumers off laptops into dedicated facebook terminals AKA tablets, so perhaps the high-res IPS screens with quality keyboards+trackpads will soon be offered again for a premium price. I am rooting for Dell here. Now when Lenovo is gone, their Precision series is probably the closest one to take advantage of this. Does anyone want to apply to YC with a novel idea: make computers for people who make money using computers?

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kunai 14y ago
Does anyone want to apply to YC with a novel idea: make computers for people who make money using computers? I actually thought about this. A nice, rugged computer with a good keyboard, sturdy construction, great pointing stick hardware and 16:10 display. All of which ThinkPad just isn't right now. Unfortunately, my financial options and also my experience is very limited in this regard. If anyone proposes a project like this on Kickstarter, I'll be the first to throw money at it.
- Stratoscope 14y ago
  Unfortunately, the "great pointing stick hardware" will likely run into some IBM patents. None of the other machines with pointing sticks have ever been able to get the same natural response as a TrackPoint, I believe partly because of these patents. What a deal: Lenovo doesn't want to make professional machines any more, but they won't likely let anyone else use the TrackPoint patents.
  - 14y ago

orangethirty 14y ago

That's not a Lenovo, that's a Toshiba. Great. The one computer no one had managed to fuck up.

grannyg00se 14y ago

" The trackpad now has five buttons which you can customize for Windows 8 gestures via the device driver. There are subtle red lines on the surface indicating the trackpoint buttons. " I'm going to keep calm and assume that these trackpad buttons work perfectly while using the trackpoint. At least they didn't change the key laout again. I just got used to the new layout. It takes more effort to use though. There's a horrible wrist-crank that goes on while trying to page down with a pinky. Anyway, I'm hoping my next computer will be little more than a keyboard (thinkpad travelnav) with something like a raspberry pi at the bottom and hdmi display glasses.

Rickasaurus 14y ago

I can't believe they left the pageup/pagedown right near the arrow keys. I hit those by accident several times a day.

johnward 14y ago
This is the absolute worst 'feature' on a thinkpad. When browsing those buttons are forward/back. Other that I'm not sure why they can't get a decent trackpad. Even though synaptics makes both the thinkpad and macbook trackpads, the mac is far better. It must come down to software/drivers.
pkamb 14y ago
Why have they ditched the "big delete key" redesigned keyboard they were touting a couple years ago?

signed0 14y ago

"Nothing material-wise has changed with the hinges, and we kept them visible so you still know strong the laptop is." Translation: "Don't pay any attention to the body that is made out of cheap plastic, look at these shiny metal hinges!"

lathropd 14y ago

OK... Having trouble loving this. I'm an MBP fella but for the past few years Thinkpads have been the PCs for which I've secretly lusted. Lenovo, becoming more Mac-ish only makes long for you less. Wouldn't a better monitor be a better thing than flipping the logo?

jim_h 14y ago

I think the high point of the Thinkpad line was around the T61/X61t. They were fast, durable and had nice high resolution display. I was desperately waiting for an update to my X61t w/ 1400x1050 display and no such option come from them and after many years, still none! Such a disappointment. I saw the photos in the article and then noticed they removed the trackpad buttons. They're moving away from why I liked them before.. that's fine, but they're not making big enough hardware improvements to offset those changes.

ericabiz 14y ago
The Thinkpad X1 Carbon is 1600x900. Surprised that is not that well-known, as you're the second person on this thread I've noticed with that misconception. I upgraded from my old X200s to the X1 Carbon and it's great.
- krsunny 14y ago
  I've been wanting this model for months. How is the video performance on it? Movies, games etc?
  - ericabiz 14y ago
    I'm going to say "fine", as I've honestly never noticed an issue at all. I still do video editing on my desktop as it's way faster. I don't play games, so I can't answer that one for you.
- 4ad 14y ago
  1600x900 is lower than 1920x1200 and even lower than 1680x1050, which older models had. It's also lower than 2880x1800 found in a competitor model. It is also a TN display, not an IPS one.

dylanz 14y ago

Lenovo needs to slowly remove the bizarre and seemingly random vendor/OS specific features of their machines, and simplify (if that's an option). For example, I know there is an Intel processor in the machine an Windows as a default install, so please don't put hard to remove stickers on my machine. I'm a big Lenovo fan, but they need to take a step back. Side note, PM me if you want to buy a nearly never used maxed out X220.

Stratoscope 14y ago
Funny thing about the stickers: my current two ThinkPads (W520 and X220 Tablet) had three stickers each: one was Intel, I think the other was Microsoft, and the last one was Lenovo Enhanced Experience. The Intel and Microsoft stickers came off easily and cleanly. (Pro tip: Use the plastic toothpick from a Swiss Army Knife. The flat point is just right to get under the corner of a sticker and lift it loose. Then the rest of the sticker is easy to peel off.) The Lenovo Enhanced Experience sticker? Quite a bit more tenacious. It was a real pain to get it loose at all, and then it left a bunch of residue behind. Some kind of Enhanced Experience! I hate stickers.

imrehg 14y ago

I really hope they will sell this with no OS. My current computer is a two-year old X201, the only brand that sold laptops without windows, it was more powerful and even cheaper model... I love it, and works beautifully with ArchLinux. Had to service twice (the monitor cable broke once because of the lots of opening and closing, and the fan died once), and maybe will have to fix my headphone jack, but it was always painless, free and speedy in the service centre....

moonlimb 14y ago
do you know how well other thinkpads work with ArchLinux? I'm looking into x230, X1 carbon, and T430s
- imrehg 14y ago
  I think they should be all fine. Here's some others' info about it, partly from the (excellent) Arch Wiki, and from a blog: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ThinkPad_X230 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ThinkPad_X230 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1 http://blog.burntsushi.net/lenovo-thinkpad-t430-archlinux http://blog.burntsushi.net/lenovo-thinkpad-t430-archlinux

jim_h 14y ago

I have the Thinkpad X22, X40, T40, T60p, X61t. After the X61t, I saw nothing remotely compelling from their Thinkpad line.

ciupicri 14y ago

> we want to retain the right amount of ThinkPad-ness that satisfies our loyal customers who’ve always valued it while modernizing ThinkPad under the influences of consumerization’s focus on simplicity, interoperability and connectedness Why not just use/create another brand like the IdeaPad?

whichdan 14y ago
Isn't that what they did with the Thinkpad Edge?

neonkiwi 14y ago

I really like ThinkPads, but I think if they count rotating the logo to face up while open as a new feature, they should also include the feature of memorable model names. T431s? That's a SKU, not a model. Lenovo is experimenting with it's consumer-grade IdeaPad line—there's a Yoga, for instance—but it can still feel like a business machine with a memorable name.

javert 14y ago
Disagree. What could you possibly call a computer, that's not just arbitrary and dumb? Yoga is one of the worst names I've ever heard for a computer.

piyush_soni 14y ago

That ugly trackpoint (that red dot in the middle of keyboard) and that extremely irritating swapped position of Fn and Ctrl keys are the two things that keep me away from this otherwise excellent laptop. (Though the Fn and Ctrl keys can now be swapped from BIOS, but why? )

grannyg00se 14y ago
Ugly trackpoint? Are you trolling? Trackpoint is one of the most significant reasons people buy a thinkpad over any other trackpad only laptop. I've heard the ctrl and fn placement is an issue for many people, but I don't understand why you'd want the more frequently used key further away than a hardly ever used key. Or maybe people actually use fn more often than ctrl? That doesn't seem likely.
- MBlume 14y ago
  Don't think further away. Think corners. Corners are easy to hit, you know where they are. Second from the corner requires more effort. Same reasoning as "hot corners" in operating systems.
  - grannyg00se 14y ago
    I can understand that. I guess I've gotten used to the close pinky curl-under that hits Ctrl just right.
- piyush_soni 14y ago
  I was just talking about myself and a few others. In my company people are all given a Thinkpad (no choice), and howsoever I try I can't get that to work easily - and it's definitely much slower for me than the trackpad (and it looks bad to me anyway). I know that many people find that very useful and with time people get greatly used to that trackpoint, but definitely not beginners. Ctrl key has always been the last key at the bottom row, so it's really easy to press, not sure why they would change that standard. Previously they didn't even have a BIOS setting, but they faced such a strong backlash that they had to add that. They did a survey and found out that a lot of people want that to match the industry convention.

philwelch 14y ago

I love MacBooks, but even I am a little disappointed the new ThinkPad is more like a MacBook.

azatris 14y ago

Not a big fan of the changes here either. However, I must note that this: "At the same time we added a living element to it with a new LED in the logo middle giving it a “heartbeat” of sorts. It’s functional too, showing the PC’s status of on or in sleep." This feature has always let me distinguish my high-end T420 from other cheaper, worse models which have the ugly red led. With T420 I somewhat feel like this is the last good Thinkpad of the T-series, but of course I am biased.

erikpukinskis 14y ago

They should've never ditched the blue enter key. Any machine with the 3-color IBM logo and a blue enter key is gonna be the hottest machine on the block.

jblow 14y ago

I used to buy ThinkPads all the time. But they just keep getting worse (along with all other Windows laptops). As for the new Thinkpad described in this article... lack of physical mouse buttons = instant fail. This seems like a weird style-oriented consumer move, not a business-user kind of move. I don't understand why everyone is in such a hurry to try and copy the MacBook (badly). At this point, availability of physical mouse buttons is very high in my list of selling points for a laptop. I doubt I am alone.

qompiler 14y ago

I had to laugh out loud because it still looks the same. Or was that the joke?

electrotype 14y ago

Am I the only one to actually prefere a big enter key ( http://i.imgur.com/NMwiGAR.jpg http://i.imgur.com/NMwiGAR.jpg ) to a smaller one ( http://imgur.com/G54Jua5,NMwiGAR#0 http://imgur.com/G54Jua5,NMwiGAR#0 ) ? Also, I'm one of those who want the CTRL key to be at the corner (no bios workaround).

kh_hk 14y ago

I am happy with my X60, but just in case I might fancy an upgrade, which is the last model worth of it? Maybe the X230 but the screen frame still looks too big / noticeable.

johnward 14y ago

I'm a macbook user and absolutely hate my thinkpad. However, I realize the people who love the thinkpad are all about function over form. Making the thinkpad more mac like (or consumer like or whatever) is just going to alienate the people already buying these.

wooger 14y ago

Yet again, they're pushing out 16:9 screens in a case obviously designed to take a 16:10 display. It look ridiculous. These are premium machines, they can clearly afford to get decent IPS displays produced in whatever aspect ratio they choose (as both Apple and Google have done), but they continue with this 16:9 bullshit. I'm not fond of any current laptop hardware as they're all too compromised. I second the sentiment that in a year or two it'll be possible to have a simple keyboard attached to an ARM based mini computer (raspberry pi but better), outputting to some wearable display / hooked to a monitor. This might in fact just be a phone of course. I'd love to be able to just carry a nice mini mechanical keyboard with me, rather than use laptop keyboards.

nogoodnik 14y ago

I used to have a Thinkpad T61. Best laptop I ever had. When it came time to upgrade, I looked in disbelief at the current Thinkpad line, and felt the same emptyness in my heart as when my old HP 42S calculator died and I went to HP's site to find what their RPN calculator line was up to these days. How sad it is when a line of beautiful, well-engineered machines become extinct, supplanted by mediocre, cheaper tools.

jzawodn 14y ago
Same. I got a MacBook Pro.

acturbo 14y ago

Using the same ThinkPad w500 for 4+ years, running 1920 x 1200 resolution. I'm utterly fed up with the consumerization of power notebooks at the expense of the needs of productivity workers. The last few years have been an outright de-evolution of screen resolutions for laptops ... i'm still waiting for a clear upgrade path. I'm a technology marketing specialist. I design graphics and develop software and websites using Adobe Creative Suite, Visual Studio, and various other apps that require lots of screen real estate. It seems like computer companies think everyone buys notebooks to watch movies. There are a millions of power users that require high resolution notebooks including engineers, CAD/CAM designers, architects, graphic designers, developers, etc. These groups form the best litmus test for determining quality wrt high-end technology. And these groups are being alienated by technology companies -- both software and hardware. This includes the latest Windows 8 craptaculous dr. jekyll mr. hyde release, along with the numerous laptop vendors all trying to shove consumer-focused technology down the throats of power users that primarily use technology to PRODUCE THINGS. The most insulting and infuriating thing is that the ThinkPad brand in particular grew famous from the loyalty of power-users like me. And instead of listening to us and delivering products that meet and exceed our needs, Lenovo (and other manufacturers) blindly chase after new consumer oriented customers at our expense. The marketing morons at these companies (i know their "work" very well) are focused on generating growth and chasing after new markets -- at all costs. That's fine. Create a new brand to do that. My advise to manufacturers of high-end products for long-term success: - Create new brands to enter new markets - Deliver high-end products that meet/exceed the needs of your most demanding customers - Evolve core brands CAREFULLY - If you don't use the product as your demanding customers do, then you don't understand the product, so you should not make drastic decisions that affect it ac