3 ms·

"And I think the Xbox 360 is a bona fide hit in anyone's book." That's an odd book you have there. The last I heard was that at least they are profitable now.

by axod 18y ago

"And I think the Xbox 360 is a bona fide hit in anyone's book." That's an odd book you have there. The last I heard was that at least they are profitable now. However, there's 6 years or so of vastly unprofitable to pay back before they actually make any money from the venture. By that time we'll be into the next console war, and who wins that is anyones guess. (Whoever stops using discs for the love of god). People hate MS for a variety of reasons. My top 3: 1. Taste - they consistently implement bad solutions rather than good, elegant solutions. 2. The internet - they show consistently that they do not understand the internet. They loose enough money on it. They don't get advertising, building webapps, browsers, etc 3. Bullying - Squashing the competition and giving users a worse experience isn't nice. It holds back progress. Suing people because they use the FAT format is ridiculous and indefensible. The FAT format is so simple it's trivial. They are irrelevant to most people in any event. Unless you work in the corporate world.

unalone 18y ago
Irrelevant is a tricky word, but I agree with your points. They're irrelevant in that they are no longer leaders. Arguably they still have a creative drive with the 360, but I'd argue that Nintendo is doing vastly more to change the world of video games than Microsoft is.
- axod 18y ago
  Slightly off topic, but what the hell is the point in me buying an xBox360, with a large HDD, so I can store the games on it, if I still have to put each disc in when I want to play them? The next games console that actually solves that issue will do brilliantly. An improvement would be to just distribute the games on memory cards, and make the console have say 64 card slots. Then you can just load in all your fave game cartridges and play them, and the piracy issue is addressed. I agree, Nintendo is really pushing innovation which has paid off for them in terms of profit. My main point @ irrelevant was that most people these days wouldn't really care if their computer came with Windows, Ubuntu, OS X. As long as it has a browser.
  - unalone 18y ago
    I agree with that. I don't think most Windows users care what OS they're using, whereas a larger proportion of Mac/Linux users have made a firm commitment by picking their OS. I don't know much about the 360: I'm a Wii/PC gamer myself. The only really cool thing about the 360 is XBox Live, and I'll take online PC play over that any day. PC gamers are much classier, from my experience: the TF2 players are all pretty awesome.
mattmaroon 18y ago
Apple fans always move the goal posts when discussing Microsoft. The iPhone sells 17m units, and it's a hit, despite having relatively small market share. The Xbox 360 sells 28m units (about 30% market share in its generation) leads its segment, and it's not a hit somehow. Microsoft is doing really, really well in the gaming space, in fact they lead the serious gamer market. They sell more games per unit at higher prices. They've been the clear leader in online connectivity and game distribution, with Nintendo and Sony lagging years behind them there, and they're doing a million downloads a week. They've also got the top game franchise with Halo, smashing sales records with each release. Comparing them to the Wii is like comparing the iPhone to a free-after-contract clamshell. Of course some of the clamshells sell many more units, but that doesn't make the iPhone a dud. And they're moving into the VOD space. They're now streaming tons of videos through Netflix and some of the built in stuff. Having a console attached to 28m TVs has given them the video distribution channel that Apple tried and failed miserably to get with the Apple TV, though I have a feeling that if that product sold 28m units you'd call it a hit.
- axod 18y ago
  OK lets ask it this way. If you had enough money to buy Nintendo, with its innovation, massive profits, and cult following, or the xBox section from ms with its debt, which would you buy? Who knows, maybe in 5 or 6 years xBox will have paid back what it cost them to develop. Or maybe a new console will come out and no one will remember what the xBox was before they get a chance. The genius was that Nintendo decided to not compete with xbox and ps3, and instead create a new market which they completely dominate and profit heavily from. Personally I don't buy the 'control of the living room' strategy. From anyone. Apple TV? no thanks. Portable devices - Nintendo DS, iPhone/iPod are where it'll be IMHO
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    I don't know what debt you mean, the division is profitable. It took them some money to get there, but that's what happens when you battle competition that has been entrenched for decades. At the rate they're going, they'll soon be profitable on the EDD unit as a whole. So I'd take the Xbox unit, if we're talking strictly TV consoles. (Nintendo owns the handheld market, and is one of the biggest game makers too, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.) For one, they're the most likely to abandon optical media as a necessity for their next player. Nintendo is very backward-thinking when it comes to media formats, consistently choosing cartridges and proprietary discs. By your own logic, that's pretty bad. (The Wii proves users really don't give a damn yet, but they may.) They'll still offer discs, because a lot of people will still want to rent games, buy them as gifts from Best Buy, etc. But it won't be the only way to get any new game. You can already pay to just download tons of games from the library. For another, they're the most compelling VOD service on the market. They're going to achieve the dream of streaming movie rentals to people in large numbers. They're already doing it with Netlflix, but they're still improving. I already cancelled my cable and now watch whatever TV I do through PlayOn or streaming from a PC thanks to my Xbox. Despite rarely playing console games, my Xbox gets used daily. They're much more than a gaming device, and they're growing there all the time. The Wii is not, it plays casual games well, and that's about it. And that's great, don't get me wrong, but it isn't the only market segment. Also remember, Nintendo has been playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle for a couple generations before the Wii, after having dominated for 2 generations. There's no reason to believe they won't end up right back there. That industry is tumultuous to say the least. And even if you'd go with Nintendo, that doesn't make what Microsoft has done any less impressive. That industry is one of the most brutally competitive there is. So many people have come and go, big companies have tried and failed to get a toe hold. Microsoft hit the #2 spot 2 generations in a row, and built a genuinely cool product that is killing the non-casual segment right now. It's really impressive.

by axod 18y ago

unalone 18y ago

Irrelevant is a tricky word, but I agree with your points. They're irrelevant in that they are no longer leaders. Arguably they still have a creative drive with the 360, but I'd argue that Nintendo is doing vastly more to change the world of video games than Microsoft is.

axod 18y ago
Slightly off topic, but what the hell is the point in me buying an xBox360, with a large HDD, so I can store the games on it, if I still have to put each disc in when I want to play them? The next games console that actually solves that issue will do brilliantly. An improvement would be to just distribute the games on memory cards, and make the console have say 64 card slots. Then you can just load in all your fave game cartridges and play them, and the piracy issue is addressed. I agree, Nintendo is really pushing innovation which has paid off for them in terms of profit. My main point @ irrelevant was that most people these days wouldn't really care if their computer came with Windows, Ubuntu, OS X. As long as it has a browser.
- unalone 18y ago
  I agree with that. I don't think most Windows users care what OS they're using, whereas a larger proportion of Mac/Linux users have made a firm commitment by picking their OS. I don't know much about the 360: I'm a Wii/PC gamer myself. The only really cool thing about the 360 is XBox Live, and I'll take online PC play over that any day. PC gamers are much classier, from my experience: the TF2 players are all pretty awesome.

mattmaroon 18y ago

Apple fans always move the goal posts when discussing Microsoft. The iPhone sells 17m units, and it's a hit, despite having relatively small market share. The Xbox 360 sells 28m units (about 30% market share in its generation) leads its segment, and it's not a hit somehow. Microsoft is doing really, really well in the gaming space, in fact they lead the serious gamer market. They sell more games per unit at higher prices. They've been the clear leader in online connectivity and game distribution, with Nintendo and Sony lagging years behind them there, and they're doing a million downloads a week. They've also got the top game franchise with Halo, smashing sales records with each release. Comparing them to the Wii is like comparing the iPhone to a free-after-contract clamshell. Of course some of the clamshells sell many more units, but that doesn't make the iPhone a dud. And they're moving into the VOD space. They're now streaming tons of videos through Netflix and some of the built in stuff. Having a console attached to 28m TVs has given them the video distribution channel that Apple tried and failed miserably to get with the Apple TV, though I have a feeling that if that product sold 28m units you'd call it a hit.

axod 18y ago
OK lets ask it this way. If you had enough money to buy Nintendo, with its innovation, massive profits, and cult following, or the xBox section from ms with its debt, which would you buy? Who knows, maybe in 5 or 6 years xBox will have paid back what it cost them to develop. Or maybe a new console will come out and no one will remember what the xBox was before they get a chance. The genius was that Nintendo decided to not compete with xbox and ps3, and instead create a new market which they completely dominate and profit heavily from. Personally I don't buy the 'control of the living room' strategy. From anyone. Apple TV? no thanks. Portable devices - Nintendo DS, iPhone/iPod are where it'll be IMHO
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  I don't know what debt you mean, the division is profitable. It took them some money to get there, but that's what happens when you battle competition that has been entrenched for decades. At the rate they're going, they'll soon be profitable on the EDD unit as a whole. So I'd take the Xbox unit, if we're talking strictly TV consoles. (Nintendo owns the handheld market, and is one of the biggest game makers too, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.) For one, they're the most likely to abandon optical media as a necessity for their next player. Nintendo is very backward-thinking when it comes to media formats, consistently choosing cartridges and proprietary discs. By your own logic, that's pretty bad. (The Wii proves users really don't give a damn yet, but they may.) They'll still offer discs, because a lot of people will still want to rent games, buy them as gifts from Best Buy, etc. But it won't be the only way to get any new game. You can already pay to just download tons of games from the library. For another, they're the most compelling VOD service on the market. They're going to achieve the dream of streaming movie rentals to people in large numbers. They're already doing it with Netlflix, but they're still improving. I already cancelled my cable and now watch whatever TV I do through PlayOn or streaming from a PC thanks to my Xbox. Despite rarely playing console games, my Xbox gets used daily. They're much more than a gaming device, and they're growing there all the time. The Wii is not, it plays casual games well, and that's about it. And that's great, don't get me wrong, but it isn't the only market segment. Also remember, Nintendo has been playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle for a couple generations before the Wii, after having dominated for 2 generations. There's no reason to believe they won't end up right back there. That industry is tumultuous to say the least. And even if you'd go with Nintendo, that doesn't make what Microsoft has done any less impressive. That industry is one of the most brutally competitive there is. So many people have come and go, big companies have tried and failed to get a toe hold. Microsoft hit the #2 spot 2 generations in a row, and built a genuinely cool product that is killing the non-casual segment right now. It's really impressive.