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Two Months of Soylent

265 points by caublestone 14y ago

stephengillie 14y ago
While your project is crazy, you've inspired me to try eating 1/2 of a 600-calorie sandwich every 3 hours. The points about disconnecting our energy source from our entertainment resonates with me, and I'm becoming more aware of the benefits of a consistent calorie supply. The FDA recommends a crazy amount of potassium. Most people don't get that much potassium in their diets.
- eru 14y ago
  Interesting. Why would you want to have a constant calorie supply? Our bodies are very adapt at buffering. (Especially if you abstain from the simpler carbohydrates.)
tantalor 14y ago
How exactly does Soylent solve world hunger? I've heard we produce more than enough food to solve hunger already, and much is wasted. Is the food too expensive? Is Soylent much more shelf stable?
- derefr 14y ago
  > Is Soylent much more shelf stable? No, actually, it's less so. But apparently it can be made out of "very common [mostly vegetable] ingredients growable in every place on Earth", unlike most other "complete" diets.
  - Cyranix 14y ago
    The "[mostly vegetable]" aspect would, in theory, also reduce stress on water supplies because raising animals requires a fair amount of water. I don't have a definitive source at hand, but there's an interesting interactive exploration of the matter on NatGeo: http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/freshwater/embedded-water/ http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/freshw...
- bstar77 14y ago
  I would guess that the main problem is distribution of said food. Since most food spoils quickly, that presents a huge problem. If Soylent powder preserves well, then distribution should be substantially easier.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  The components of Soylent (as listed in an earlier blog post) are chemically stable at room temperature. (caveat the probiotics). (this from looking them up in the 'rubber bible' [1]) I would expect you could spoil them if they got too hot (oxidizing) but other than that doesn't look too bad. Assuming the $150/month calculated, that's still pretty pricey for someone who makes $1-$2 a day in wages. Its not clear to me how to calculate how that cost compares to sending sacks of wheat or rice. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRC_Handbook_of_Chemistry_and_Physics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRC_Handbook_of_Chemistry_and_P...
  - discodave 14y ago
    Also the price is entirely dictated by the market... If everybody was drinking soylent the price of the ingredients would go up.
    - dandelany 14y ago
      That's a bit of a reach. Maybe long-term, if the whole world were drinking Soylent and it relied on some severely limited resources, this could happen. But in the short/medium term, if demand increases, it's very likely Rob will find someone who can produce/mix the ingredients in large batches, and economies of scale will kick in, making it significantly cheaper.
  - Volpe 14y ago
    Are $1-$2/day wages common in the US? That $150/month cost is a cost incurred in the US. It would be a different cost to source the ingredients in every country.
  - jff 14y ago
    If I could keep myself fully nourished for $5/day ($150/month), I'd be pretty damn happy. We don't even have to talk about the third world to see possible benefits. We're always hearing about how America's poor don't have time to prepare food and are thus "forced" to buy, essentially, McDonald's. Well, you can feed yourself 3 sandwiches off the dollar menu a day on that budget, or for $5/day you can get (theoretically) everything you need with no more effort than mixing up a glass of Tang.
magnetikonline 14y ago
It's people?
bsmith 14y ago
> Some people tell me going "ketogenic", or reducing carbs is healthy. I am now skeptical of this claim as lowering carbs makes me feel hungry and tired, and the drink taste less sweet. Perhaps it would be possible after an unpleasant transition period, but I don’t see the ultimate gain... Their advice seems to fall in line with the paleo/primal philosophies—in a nutshell: man only started eating a significant amount of carbohydrates after the agriculturalization of cereals (grains) about 10,000 years ago. They argue that wasn't enough time for us to evolve enough to adapt. But to your point about feeling hungry and tired—I think it's because you're addicted to carbs and sugar (like almost all of us are), but you don't NEED carbs, at all. I tried primal for a month, and yes, the adjustment took a few days (maybe a week). However, after I got over the sugar/carb cravings, my energy levels where much more even throughout the day, sans-grains.
- Semaphor 14y ago
  Honestly the only two things I'm missing on low carb are ice cream (that's okay though) and coke (which is why I'm searching for a pure stevia alternative). I had way less problems then I would have expected. edit: a) I'm in Germany, not that many products available here. b) I always steered clear of Coca Cola, Pepsi and so on, those were too sweet for me and the caffeine level was rather low anyway.
  - groby_b 14y ago
    That alternative would be Zevia. I get them at Trader Joe's or Sprout's - YMMV.
  - mikeryan 14y ago
    You may have found this but http://www.zevia.com/ http://www.zevia.com/ for Stevia based Soda options.
    - Semaphor 14y ago
      Yeah, found it. Sadly I'm in Germany :/ Will probably get one of my friends to bring me some when they visit home the next time.
m_d 14y ago
I have a great deal of respect for self-experimenters, no matter how crazy they seem. That said, I'd like to see him compare two months of Soylent to two months of eating solid meals with a similar nutritional profile. Most of the benefits he has experienced are probably just a result of extremely well-balanced diet, not anything specifically related to Soylent.
- gnaritas 14y ago
  > Most of the benefits he has experienced are probably just a result of extremely well-balanced diet That's rather the point of Soylent, to deliver a well balanced diet. > not anything specifically related to Soylent. This statement makes little sense, he merely claimed Soylent was a way to achieve good nutrition, not that it was magic.
  - gwern 14y ago
    > That's rather the point of Soylent, to deliver a well balanced diet. Comparing a well-balanced diet with Soylent is not a waste of time: if nothing else, it's evidence for the debate about whether all the micronutrients and random stuff in 'real' food is subjectively noticeable in the short-term or whether you really can get away with just macronutrients and a few other chemicals.
    - gnaritas 14y ago
      I don't see how what you said related in any way to what I said. Where did I say anything was a waste of time?
      - jongraehl 14y ago
        To recap, m_d wishes to see a comparison at the same protein+fat+carbs (normal non-junk food) vs. soylent. gnaritas objects. gwern supports m_d. gnaritas has an opportunity to qualify his objection, but chooses not to. (fwiw, I'm also extremely interested in all manner of "are there valuable yet-to-be-identified substances in real food" experiments.)
aroberge 14y ago
This is just a marketing ploy - otherwise, the ingredients and instructions as to how to make it would have been provided for free on the blog. And no, I don't buy the excuses that have been made as to why the list of actual ingredients can not be provided.
- kkwok 14y ago
  Not disagreeing, but a previous post does list the ingredients: http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424
  - Udo 14y ago
    Exactly. This is most likely a marketing ploy, but the ingredient list is there, anybody could mix that up and try it - no magical sauce here. I have to admit it's interesting to follow this experiment, though. As bootstrapped marketing schemes go, I've seen much worse.
    - alex_doom 14y ago
      Marketing for what? There's nothing being sold, he lists the items he uses and amounts. Why would a marketer give away the secret sauce.
      - lutze 14y ago
        He just gives nutritional information, not an ingredients list. In the latest post he mentions that several chemists have figured out how to make his concoction, but he explicitly states he's not making the recipe public yet.
        Udo 14y ago
        He gves a list of ingredients, each with the precise amount used, doesn't he? I thought that was pretty self-explanatory. Sure, he didn't say where he got them from or how he mixes them, but someone dedicated would be able to figure it out. It's not rocket science, uh, chemistry!
geoka9 14y ago
Sorry, but after reading the following (elsewhere on that blog), I'm hard-pressed not to dismiss this as an elaborate troll. "I read a book on Number Theory in one sitting, a Differential Geometry book in a weekend, filling up a notebook in the process."
- vinceguidry 14y ago
  How is that implausible? He's an engineer by trade, mathematics is close enough to computer science that most half-way decent programmers should be able to read that level math casually given a good 'brain day'. I spent most of my twenties neglecting math, decided one day to learn calculus, found it pretty easy.
  - ktt3ja 14y ago
    If by calculus you meant Calculus 1, 2, or 3 as taught in the first year or two of college, they are a far cry from subjects like number theory and differential geometry. If you meant something like real analysis, then I seriously doubt that you had an easy time. Anyway, I just read the paragraph with the sentence quoted by geoka9 (it's in the "How I Stopped Eating Food" post), and I call BS on it, too.
  - geoka9 14y ago
    Firstly, you don't read a textbook (especially a math textbook) in one sitting. If nothing else, books like that have problems that the authors expect you to go through. They are also often based on lectures for courses that take at least a semester to absorb. Secondly, number theory is not calculus; it requires you to be familiar with college-level math courses (e.g. abstract algebra) before you can even start making sense of it. It's certainly plausible that an engineer might pursue it as a hobby, but it's rather unusual, and certainly not for the faint of hear (it requires major commitment in terms of patience and time). The same goes true for diff. geometry, although it may be more approachable (e.g. many undegraduate math syllabi have it, while number theory is usually a postgraduate course).
    - jaggederest 14y ago
gojomo 14y ago
Crazy name. Grab-bag, ad-hoc nutritional doctrine. Still, I'm glad such fringe self-experimentation happens. My biggest concern would be that healthy adaptive systems benefit from variety, challenge, and chaos. Intermittent fasting is good. A little contamination from things that are normally unhealthy is good. (See, for example, the hygiene hypothesis or the idea of hormesis.) Chewing is good -- as is the somewhat random mix of very-chewed or less-chewed foods you swallow. Triggering your body's reactions (including your gut biome's reactions) to different extremes of nutrient mix will keep the systems 'practiced'... ..unless you're sure you'll spend the rest of your life like a brain-in-a-vat, and then you might as well take nutrition by IV.
- scoofy 14y ago
  Taleb's new book "Antifragile" talks about this, though his conclusions about medicine are borderline absurd.
- rohern 14y ago
  Talk about an ad-hoc nutritional doctrine. Zing!
- dangero 14y ago
  "Intermittent fasting is good." Can you provide a reference for that and define what you mean by "intermittent", "fasting", and "good"?
  - gojomo 14y ago
    "Fasting" is not eating. It's usually done for the span of a few meals, or a full day (24-hour period or simply daytime), or even a few days. "Intermittent" might mean fasting once every few weeks, or once a week, or every other day, or even every daytime (as for Muslims during Ramadan). "Good" means a longer life with fewer diseases and less physical or mental decline. Some references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Benefits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Benefits http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19112549 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19112549 http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/health/he-fasting2 http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/health/he-fasting2
jheimark 14y ago
I'm confused. Is soylent the same thing as soylent green? In which case, this is a satirical post (but I don't find it very funny)... If not, isn't soylent just about the worst possible name for a real food product (with unknown/nonspecific ingredients), because of the movie?
- Cyranix 14y ago
  I can't find the link where I read this now, but apparently Soylent was largely composed of soya and lentils in the book version. See also the published list of ingredients to assuage your fears.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- nbouscal 14y ago
  The movie glossed over some details. In the book, Soylent was a variety of different things, with a soya and lentil base (hence the name), and only Soylent Green specifically was the problematic one, it being the newest release. (I haven't read it myself, just summarizing what was discussed in the last thread.)
- nsxwolf 14y ago
  Soylent green is people.
juskrey 14y ago
This guy is becoming a prominent fragilista.
- jaggederest 14y ago
  This is an interesting comment, prompted me to look up what that term 'fragilista' means. So you're saying he fails to anticipate a future negative consequence of present behavior? I guess we'll find out!
rms 14y ago
I don't question the premise here, but I question the research and specific formulation. I'm more specifically intrigued by the formulation behind something like Chori bar. http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Chori-bar-nutritious-punch-for-poor-eating-habits-3571765.php http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Chori-bar-nutritious-pu...
duck 14y ago
Other HN thread from a couple days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369778 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369778
lnanek2 14y ago
Couldn't you just buy Ensure or some other meal shake at the local pharmacy?
- dandelany 14y ago
  You could, but what fun would that be? :) In seriousness though, much of OP's intent was to make Soylent as affordable as possible. To that end, a quick cost comparison: You can buy 24 8-oz Ensure drinks on sale from Amazon for $42.50. Each drink contains 350 calories, so: (24 * 350) / $42.50 = 198 kcal/dollar. Rob claims to get 2629 calories a day from Soylent, and his monthly costs were $154.82, so: (30 * 2629) / $154.82 = 509 kcal/dollar. Soylent is 2.5x cheaper than Ensure (based on calories alone).
  - stan_rogers 14y ago
    That's WAY overpriced. I live a good part of my life on the stuff (swallowing problems arising from Parkinsonism) and at local pharmacies it's regularly on sale for $9 for a six-pack (bottles, not cans—they're almost always more expensive in cans, and the cans and bottles are the same size), or $36 for 24. But that's if you buy the Abbot-branded stuff; most of the large pharmacy chains sell a house-brand version for a little less ($7/six-pack, or $28/24, in Toronto is not unusual for Shoppers' Life Brand, and there's a President's Choice version in the Loblaws chain as well). Note that there are three versions: regular (intended as a top-up supplement for people who are eating, just not well), "plus calories" (mostly more fat), and "plus protein", each of which is aimed at people with different requirements. And no, it's not an adequate diet replacement for the average case. If you really don't like food and consider it an inconvenience, maybe—but that ain't normal. And it's not just a matter of getting used to it (goodness knows I've had enough of the stuff); normal people actually enjoy the tastes and textures of good food.
5partan 14y ago
I see he has done his homework by adding choline. well done.
paxtonab 14y ago
"I didn't give up food, I just got rid of the bad food." After reading the 1st HN abut this I was skeptical, but this sentence fully convinced me that Rinehart is on to something. Imagine a world with a quick, healthy, affordable lunch substitute that negated the 'need' to eat fast food when you feel pressed for time at work... Thankfully this only happens to me 2 or 3 times a month , but I'm guessing that for most of America that's more like 2 or 3 times a week.
- eru 14y ago
  Couldn't you just fast those days? (And I mean you as in you, not those other Americans.)
markerdmann 14y ago
After reading the first Soylent post, I felt inspired to try and come up with a recipe for a "nutritionally complete" soup. I used an online tool that calculates the total nutrients for a recipe and came up with this: 3 potatoes 1 onion 500 grams of wild alaskan salmon 1/2 cup of mushrooms 3.5 tbsp of olive oil 30 grams of sunflower seeds 1 tbsp of dried parsley 2 tbsp of ground thyme 50 grams of parmesan cheese 3 cloves of garlic 20 grams of sesame seeds 1 medium oyster (from a can) 1 tbsp of ground mace 1 tsp of cod liver oil To cook it I just added everything to boiling water in order of cooking time, starting with the potatoes and onions and ending with the salmon. I tried making it last night and ate it for dinner and breakfast, and it was delicious! I also feel amazing. I guess I should track the effects of the recipe on quantified-mind.com. :-) I was actually surprised by how hard it was to fit all of the daily nutrient requirements into a recipe with about 2000-2500 calories (while also avoiding nutrient overdoses). It would be great if someone would create a website for "nutritionally complete" recipes, especially recipes that are cheap and easy to make with a good blender or crockpot.
- abecedarius 14y ago
  Neat experiment. If the cod liver oil's for vitamins, I think cooking will mess that up.
  - cheeseprocedure 14y ago
    It would be really handy to have a table of common raw ingredients, the temperatures at which they become safe to eat (if applicable), and the temperature at which their various nutrients denature.
    - jaggederest 14y ago
      > the temperatures at which they become safe to eat (if applicable) Most modern food can be eaten raw. Or lightly seared to kill surface bacteria. Modern food safety is pretty neat. It probably won't taste great though. NB this does not apply to raw processed meat - for example, ground beef/pork/chicken is probably a bad bet. Surface area to volume ratios are key.
nathan_f77 14y ago
Hopefully moving to San Francisco in a few weeks. Very keen to get in touch and try it out.
Steko 14y ago
Via Wonkblog: For those of us who generally don’t like food, consider it an annoyance, and yearn for a way to avoid eating it, Soylent sounds immensely promising. But is it safe? Surprisingly, the answer from nutrition experts seems to be, “Yeah, probably.” Jay Mirtallo is a professor of pharmacy at Ohio State and the immediate past president of American Society for Parental Enteral Nutrition, which focuses on the science and practice of providing food to patients through both intravenous injections and feeding tubes. His main concern with Rhinehart’s plan is that he’s making the concoction himself, rather than buying it from reputable suppliers. “He basically made medical food,” Mirtallo says. “If he wanted to switch to a liquid diet, those are already available.” Indeed they are. Companies like Abbott Nutrition and NestléHealthScience sell dozens of medical food products. ... I asked Mirtallo if I could live a healthy life just drinking medical food from here on out. “You can completely,” he says. “But I don’t know why you’d want to. There are so many social aspects to food in what we do.” One potential downside is cost. Rhinehart claims that he only spends $154.82 a month on Soylent. By contrast, a case of 24 eight-ounce cans of Jevity 1.5cal, a high caloric density product Abbott sells for feeding tube patients, costs $57 from Abbott’s Web store. As each can has 355 calories in it, you’d need six cans a day to top the 2,000 calorie a day mark used in FDA nutrition data. So a 24-pack would last you about four days. That works out to 7-8 packs a month, which could cost up to $456. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/14/rob-rhinehart-has-a-crazy-plan-to-let-you-go-without-food-forever-it-just-might-work/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/14/r...
- allforJesse 14y ago
  And that's the question that's gone unasked, because we're focusing (understandably) on the health implications first: Could Soylent be scalably produced to feed 10% or more of the world's population? Would the material prices skyrocket in response to demand? Let's set aside the physiological consequences for a moment, what are the potential economic and environmental ramifications of Soylent?
  - michaelbuckbee 14y ago
    Plumpy'nut [1] is food product specifically designed to be consumed by malnourished children. Given that the cost of it is around $30/mo I would actually guess that the barriers to adoption are political and social in nature and not technical. 1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpynut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpynut
sukuriant 14y ago
I think the biggest thing I want to remark here is that he needs to go to the doctor frequently while he's running these experiments. Once every couple of weeks or once every month. He could be doing serious harm to himself and he won't know until it's too late. Blood work might also give some interesting insights, such as "his bad cholesterol levels are lower than I've ever seen, this is amazing!" which would be useful in helping to push his encouragement of it.
- caublestone 14y ago
  In his previous blog posts, he discusses doctor visits. His cholesterol levels were unhealthy before he started the diet, now he is in the normal range. In order to sign up to be a tester, you must provide blood test results.
shurcooL 14y ago
I can't wait for the Kickstarter. But, it seems strange that this is coming from one guy rather than big companies. If it is possible to sell food/food replacement for cheaper this way, why hasn't anyone jumped on the chance to outsell others by selling for less?
- rodly 14y ago
  This is a good point. My thoughts are that Soylent and other cheap concoctions have a large acquired taste that most consumers can't get over.
dustinupdyke 14y ago
"I also stopped running 7 miles, which is really unnecessary and potentially harmful to the heart and joints" Source?
- manmal 14y ago
  I found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1837113/pdf/bmj00240-0029.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1837113/pdf/bmj0... Long-distance running is reported to predict hip joints degeneration. But it does not find out which distance is good and which is bad.
  - NuZZ 14y ago
    I think he was after information concerning the heart and running as join degradation from running is, afaik, common knowledge. I was under the impression running improved heart strength. http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/heart-attack-risks-are-greater-for-athletes-who-compete-in-endurance-sports-263 http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/heart-attack-risks-are-great... Such articles state that endurance running (as opposed to sprints) , or any edurancy activity, increase heart attack chance. No exercise is purported as the greatest heart risk, so perhaps high intensity low endurance is best for heart health? I'd imagine it wouldn't build stamina.
- muriithi 14y ago
  Even more interesting is moving from running 7miles to pi miles
humanspecies 14y ago
All the time you "save" with this sort of bullshit diet will be spent in a hospital sooner than later. You need your fucking vegetables, you need fruit, you need to chew and you need to sleep. It's as simple as that.
auctiontheory 14y ago
All this talk of chemical drinks and medical foods and intermittent fasting reminds me of the saying about another diet regimen: "Do vegetarians live longer, or does it just feel that way?"
confluence 14y ago
This guy is effectively popularising something that has existed for ages in the medical/weight loss industries: namely medical food/meal replacement drinks. The difference is that he is using them daily, without paying the premium for an off the shelf, tested, and regulated version by doing it himself. My question for those more experienced in this area is: What well tested, off the shelf, medically regulated products could I buy today that would allow me to eliminate the consumption of solid food altogether - and of those products, which ones are the best value for money? I really can't be bothered doing all the leg work required to make my own meal replacement drink (reasons being: the chance of not measuring correctly + work + forgetting nutrients + risk) - I'd like to just grab a product every month or so and just go.
- pbreit 14y ago
  This all kind of sounds like the Jevity that they gave my dad in ICU. Apparently you can stay on it for quite some time. http://abbottnutrition.com/Products/jevity-1_2-cal http://abbottnutrition.com/Products/jevity-1_2-cal
  - TheAnimus 14y ago
    Or Scandishake which appears to be a popular brand in the UK. I always remember trying to get my grandfarther to drink some when he was in the hospice, I used to bribe him by talking about an analogue circuit from the Art of Electronics, as he was mostly still in the mind of valves, but only if he finished the drink. :(
  - girvo 14y ago
    My grandmother spent the last 1.5 years of her life on some high-calorie nutrient powder/drink. Even put on a bit of weight for a while.
- Andrenid 14y ago
  I've done 3-5 month stretches (multiple times) using Sustagen (the Hospital Formula[1] one from chemists, not the supermarket variety). It was during cancer surgeries and therapies, and recommended to me by the hospital + various specialist doctors, so that's the only vote of confidence I needed that it was OK. I had no side effects while on it, didn't lose or gain weight, and actually quite enjoyed not having to worry about shopping, cooking, washing up, etc. I also slept better, and all-round "felt" better. I've considered trying it longer term voluntarily, maybe try 6 months or so, and get the full gamut of medical tests done before and after, to see what they say. [1] http://www.sustagen.com.au/products/sustagen-hospital-formula/ http://www.sustagen.com.au/products/sustagen-hospital-formul...
nazgulnarsil 14y ago
Easy version (not nutritionally complete but a decent meal replacement) if anyone is interested, comments welcome. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdG56UTZoLVBEMHBqM0VJQUt6YmV0dUE https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdG5... I always add whey to this for additional protein, which I didn't list because composition varies and it is micronutrient poor anyway.
- batgaijin 14y ago
  Is he using whey right now? I think it'd be insanely cheap online.
  - nazgulnarsil 14y ago
    2-3cents/gram of protein is usual if you shop by price. The whole shake comes in around $2 with a scoop (25g protein) of whey. Been getting ~50% of calories from this for the last year. Blood panel so far looks very very good, but I'm due for another one.
- nazgulnarsil 14y ago
  OJ version. I like this better. With vanilla whey it tastes like an orange julius. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdGZYM012N0JZTzEtVk05MVF4dlZyZ2c&usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdGZ...
goggles99 14y ago
This product would never work for me (I can't speak for everyone else) because such a thin, denatured substance transfers into the intestines (digests) rather quickly. This leaves the stomach empty and me feeling hungry. My brain starts to make me feel bad at this point. Even if I have consumed 4000 calories, it does not care. My brain wants some food in there. This is one of the same reasons why babies who can't eat solids yet need to eat so often? They can't even sleep all night because they wake up hungry. The day you start to feed them some cereal for dinner, they sleep much longer.
- crusso 14y ago
  Have you tried going on a low-carb diet? I found that after passing through the induction phase, my very healthy appetite was dramatically reduced. It was like flipping a switch. Suddenly, a normal salad felt satisfying and enough to be considered "a meal".
- papsosouid 14y ago
  I do something similar but I mix it into jello instead of just water. I find that helps with the fullness feeling, and it doesn't taste horrible.
paduc 14y ago
I wonder if this guy realizes his teeth are going to fall off. Since he has very little chewing action, the gums and underlying bone are going to go soft and eventually the teeth are going to begin falling off. But who cares, right? He doesn't really need his teeth. He should be prepared to accept a new and maybe uncommon physical shape.
- claudius 14y ago
  Bubble gum could help here.
- zen_boy 14y ago
  Someone proposed chewing gum as a way around this. This gives the jaw some exercise as well.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  >I wonder if this guy realizes his teeth are going to fall off. I wonder if people who say ridiculous stuff like this realize that there are already lots of people living on liquid diets, feeding tubes, or IV nutrition because of health problems. And their jaws don't magically turn to mush and their teeth don't fall out.
workbench 14y ago
> For those of us who generally don’t like food, consider it an annoyance, and yearn for a way to avoid eating it Words fail me
NuZZ 14y ago
"Scars that I'd had for years are barely visible now." Anyone have any idea whatthe root (ingredient) of this subjective observation may be?
- lilsunnybee 14y ago
  Delusional psychosis? confirmation bias?
- illuminate 14y ago
  Agreed with lilsunnybee, but these claims make it incredibly hard to take the rest seriously. The author is an unreliable narrator.
jilted3 14y ago
The problem with this idea long-term is that the body will 'plateau' and what may happen is decreased immunity and inability to adapt to natural seasonal and/or drastic weather changes. The body is not so simple as to be relegated to some normalizing diet. Food is as much about energetics than just protein/carbs/calories.

265 points by caublestone 14y ago

While your project is crazy, you've inspired me to try eating 1/2 of a 600-calorie sandwich every 3 hours. The points about disconnecting our energy source from our entertainment resonates with me, and I'm becoming more aware of the benefits of a consistent calorie supply. The FDA recommends a crazy amount of potassium. Most people don't get that much potassium in their diets.

eru 14y ago
Interesting. Why would you want to have a constant calorie supply? Our bodies are very adapt at buffering. (Especially if you abstain from the simpler carbohydrates.)

tantalor 14y ago

How exactly does Soylent solve world hunger? I've heard we produce more than enough food to solve hunger already, and much is wasted. Is the food too expensive? Is Soylent much more shelf stable?

derefr 14y ago
> Is Soylent much more shelf stable? No, actually, it's less so. But apparently it can be made out of "very common [mostly vegetable] ingredients growable in every place on Earth", unlike most other "complete" diets.
- Cyranix 14y ago
  The "[mostly vegetable]" aspect would, in theory, also reduce stress on water supplies because raising animals requires a fair amount of water. I don't have a definitive source at hand, but there's an interesting interactive exploration of the matter on NatGeo: http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/freshwater/embedded-water/ http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/freshw...
bstar77 14y ago
I would guess that the main problem is distribution of said food. Since most food spoils quickly, that presents a huge problem. If Soylent powder preserves well, then distribution should be substantially easier.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
The components of Soylent (as listed in an earlier blog post) are chemically stable at room temperature. (caveat the probiotics). (this from looking them up in the 'rubber bible' [1]) I would expect you could spoil them if they got too hot (oxidizing) but other than that doesn't look too bad. Assuming the $150/month calculated, that's still pretty pricey for someone who makes $1-$2 a day in wages. Its not clear to me how to calculate how that cost compares to sending sacks of wheat or rice. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRC_Handbook_of_Chemistry_and_Physics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRC_Handbook_of_Chemistry_and_P...
- discodave 14y ago
  Also the price is entirely dictated by the market... If everybody was drinking soylent the price of the ingredients would go up.
  - dandelany 14y ago
    That's a bit of a reach. Maybe long-term, if the whole world were drinking Soylent and it relied on some severely limited resources, this could happen. But in the short/medium term, if demand increases, it's very likely Rob will find someone who can produce/mix the ingredients in large batches, and economies of scale will kick in, making it significantly cheaper.
- Volpe 14y ago
  Are $1-$2/day wages common in the US? That $150/month cost is a cost incurred in the US. It would be a different cost to source the ingredients in every country.
- jff 14y ago
  If I could keep myself fully nourished for $5/day ($150/month), I'd be pretty damn happy. We don't even have to talk about the third world to see possible benefits. We're always hearing about how America's poor don't have time to prepare food and are thus "forced" to buy, essentially, McDonald's. Well, you can feed yourself 3 sandwiches off the dollar menu a day on that budget, or for $5/day you can get (theoretically) everything you need with no more effort than mixing up a glass of Tang.

magnetikonline 14y ago

It's people?

bsmith 14y ago

> Some people tell me going "ketogenic", or reducing carbs is healthy. I am now skeptical of this claim as lowering carbs makes me feel hungry and tired, and the drink taste less sweet. Perhaps it would be possible after an unpleasant transition period, but I don’t see the ultimate gain... Their advice seems to fall in line with the paleo/primal philosophies—in a nutshell: man only started eating a significant amount of carbohydrates after the agriculturalization of cereals (grains) about 10,000 years ago. They argue that wasn't enough time for us to evolve enough to adapt. But to your point about feeling hungry and tired—I think it's because you're addicted to carbs and sugar (like almost all of us are), but you don't NEED carbs, at all. I tried primal for a month, and yes, the adjustment took a few days (maybe a week). However, after I got over the sugar/carb cravings, my energy levels where much more even throughout the day, sans-grains.

Semaphor 14y ago
Honestly the only two things I'm missing on low carb are ice cream (that's okay though) and coke (which is why I'm searching for a pure stevia alternative). I had way less problems then I would have expected. edit: a) I'm in Germany, not that many products available here. b) I always steered clear of Coca Cola, Pepsi and so on, those were too sweet for me and the caffeine level was rather low anyway.
- groby_b 14y ago
  That alternative would be Zevia. I get them at Trader Joe's or Sprout's - YMMV.
- mikeryan 14y ago
  You may have found this but http://www.zevia.com/ http://www.zevia.com/ for Stevia based Soda options.
  - Semaphor 14y ago
    Yeah, found it. Sadly I'm in Germany :/ Will probably get one of my friends to bring me some when they visit home the next time.

m_d 14y ago

I have a great deal of respect for self-experimenters, no matter how crazy they seem. That said, I'd like to see him compare two months of Soylent to two months of eating solid meals with a similar nutritional profile. Most of the benefits he has experienced are probably just a result of extremely well-balanced diet, not anything specifically related to Soylent.

gnaritas 14y ago
> Most of the benefits he has experienced are probably just a result of extremely well-balanced diet That's rather the point of Soylent, to deliver a well balanced diet. > not anything specifically related to Soylent. This statement makes little sense, he merely claimed Soylent was a way to achieve good nutrition, not that it was magic.
- gwern 14y ago
  > That's rather the point of Soylent, to deliver a well balanced diet. Comparing a well-balanced diet with Soylent is not a waste of time: if nothing else, it's evidence for the debate about whether all the micronutrients and random stuff in 'real' food is subjectively noticeable in the short-term or whether you really can get away with just macronutrients and a few other chemicals.
  - gnaritas 14y ago
    I don't see how what you said related in any way to what I said. Where did I say anything was a waste of time?
    - jongraehl 14y ago
      To recap, m_d wishes to see a comparison at the same protein+fat+carbs (normal non-junk food) vs. soylent. gnaritas objects. gwern supports m_d. gnaritas has an opportunity to qualify his objection, but chooses not to. (fwiw, I'm also extremely interested in all manner of "are there valuable yet-to-be-identified substances in real food" experiments.)

aroberge 14y ago

This is just a marketing ploy - otherwise, the ingredients and instructions as to how to make it would have been provided for free on the blog. And no, I don't buy the excuses that have been made as to why the list of actual ingredients can not be provided.

kkwok 14y ago
Not disagreeing, but a previous post does list the ingredients: http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424 http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424
- Udo 14y ago
  Exactly. This is most likely a marketing ploy, but the ingredient list is there, anybody could mix that up and try it - no magical sauce here. I have to admit it's interesting to follow this experiment, though. As bootstrapped marketing schemes go, I've seen much worse.
  - alex_doom 14y ago
    Marketing for what? There's nothing being sold, he lists the items he uses and amounts. Why would a marketer give away the secret sauce.
    - lutze 14y ago
      He just gives nutritional information, not an ingredients list. In the latest post he mentions that several chemists have figured out how to make his concoction, but he explicitly states he's not making the recipe public yet.
      - Udo 14y ago
        He gves a list of ingredients, each with the precise amount used, doesn't he? I thought that was pretty self-explanatory. Sure, he didn't say where he got them from or how he mixes them, but someone dedicated would be able to figure it out. It's not rocket science, uh, chemistry!

geoka9 14y ago

Sorry, but after reading the following (elsewhere on that blog), I'm hard-pressed not to dismiss this as an elaborate troll. "I read a book on Number Theory in one sitting, a Differential Geometry book in a weekend, filling up a notebook in the process."

vinceguidry 14y ago
How is that implausible? He's an engineer by trade, mathematics is close enough to computer science that most half-way decent programmers should be able to read that level math casually given a good 'brain day'. I spent most of my twenties neglecting math, decided one day to learn calculus, found it pretty easy.
- ktt3ja 14y ago
  If by calculus you meant Calculus 1, 2, or 3 as taught in the first year or two of college, they are a far cry from subjects like number theory and differential geometry. If you meant something like real analysis, then I seriously doubt that you had an easy time. Anyway, I just read the paragraph with the sentence quoted by geoka9 (it's in the "How I Stopped Eating Food" post), and I call BS on it, too.
- geoka9 14y ago
  Firstly, you don't read a textbook (especially a math textbook) in one sitting. If nothing else, books like that have problems that the authors expect you to go through. They are also often based on lectures for courses that take at least a semester to absorb. Secondly, number theory is not calculus; it requires you to be familiar with college-level math courses (e.g. abstract algebra) before you can even start making sense of it. It's certainly plausible that an engineer might pursue it as a hobby, but it's rather unusual, and certainly not for the faint of hear (it requires major commitment in terms of patience and time). The same goes true for diff. geometry, although it may be more approachable (e.g. many undegraduate math syllabi have it, while number theory is usually a postgraduate course).
  - jaggederest 14y ago

gojomo 14y ago

Crazy name. Grab-bag, ad-hoc nutritional doctrine. Still, I'm glad such fringe self-experimentation happens. My biggest concern would be that healthy adaptive systems benefit from variety, challenge, and chaos. Intermittent fasting is good. A little contamination from things that are normally unhealthy is good. (See, for example, the hygiene hypothesis or the idea of hormesis.) Chewing is good -- as is the somewhat random mix of very-chewed or less-chewed foods you swallow. Triggering your body's reactions (including your gut biome's reactions) to different extremes of nutrient mix will keep the systems 'practiced'... ..unless you're sure you'll spend the rest of your life like a brain-in-a-vat, and then you might as well take nutrition by IV.

scoofy 14y ago
Taleb's new book "Antifragile" talks about this, though his conclusions about medicine are borderline absurd.
rohern 14y ago
Talk about an ad-hoc nutritional doctrine. Zing!
dangero 14y ago
"Intermittent fasting is good." Can you provide a reference for that and define what you mean by "intermittent", "fasting", and "good"?
- gojomo 14y ago
  "Fasting" is not eating. It's usually done for the span of a few meals, or a full day (24-hour period or simply daytime), or even a few days. "Intermittent" might mean fasting once every few weeks, or once a week, or every other day, or even every daytime (as for Muslims during Ramadan). "Good" means a longer life with fewer diseases and less physical or mental decline. Some references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Benefits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Benefits http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19112549 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19112549 http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/health/he-fasting2 http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/health/he-fasting2

jheimark 14y ago

I'm confused. Is soylent the same thing as soylent green? In which case, this is a satirical post (but I don't find it very funny)... If not, isn't soylent just about the worst possible name for a real food product (with unknown/nonspecific ingredients), because of the movie?

Cyranix 14y ago
I can't find the link where I read this now, but apparently Soylent was largely composed of soya and lentils in the book version. See also the published list of ingredients to assuage your fears.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
nbouscal 14y ago
The movie glossed over some details. In the book, Soylent was a variety of different things, with a soya and lentil base (hence the name), and only Soylent Green specifically was the problematic one, it being the newest release. (I haven't read it myself, just summarizing what was discussed in the last thread.)
nsxwolf 14y ago
Soylent green is people.

juskrey 14y ago

This guy is becoming a prominent fragilista.

jaggederest 14y ago
This is an interesting comment, prompted me to look up what that term 'fragilista' means. So you're saying he fails to anticipate a future negative consequence of present behavior? I guess we'll find out!

rms 14y ago

I don't question the premise here, but I question the research and specific formulation. I'm more specifically intrigued by the formulation behind something like Chori bar. http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Chori-bar-nutritious-punch-for-poor-eating-habits-3571765.php http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Chori-bar-nutritious-pu...

duck 14y ago

Other HN thread from a couple days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369778 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5369778

lnanek2 14y ago

Couldn't you just buy Ensure or some other meal shake at the local pharmacy?

dandelany 14y ago
You could, but what fun would that be? :) In seriousness though, much of OP's intent was to make Soylent as affordable as possible. To that end, a quick cost comparison: You can buy 24 8-oz Ensure drinks on sale from Amazon for $42.50. Each drink contains 350 calories, so: (24 * 350) / $42.50 = 198 kcal/dollar. Rob claims to get 2629 calories a day from Soylent, and his monthly costs were $154.82, so: (30 * 2629) / $154.82 = 509 kcal/dollar. Soylent is 2.5x cheaper than Ensure (based on calories alone).
- stan_rogers 14y ago
  That's WAY overpriced. I live a good part of my life on the stuff (swallowing problems arising from Parkinsonism) and at local pharmacies it's regularly on sale for $9 for a six-pack (bottles, not cans—they're almost always more expensive in cans, and the cans and bottles are the same size), or $36 for 24. But that's if you buy the Abbot-branded stuff; most of the large pharmacy chains sell a house-brand version for a little less ($7/six-pack, or $28/24, in Toronto is not unusual for Shoppers' Life Brand, and there's a President's Choice version in the Loblaws chain as well). Note that there are three versions: regular (intended as a top-up supplement for people who are eating, just not well), "plus calories" (mostly more fat), and "plus protein", each of which is aimed at people with different requirements. And no, it's not an adequate diet replacement for the average case. If you really don't like food and consider it an inconvenience, maybe—but that ain't normal. And it's not just a matter of getting used to it (goodness knows I've had enough of the stuff); normal people actually enjoy the tastes and textures of good food.

5partan 14y ago

I see he has done his homework by adding choline. well done.

paxtonab 14y ago

"I didn't give up food, I just got rid of the bad food." After reading the 1st HN abut this I was skeptical, but this sentence fully convinced me that Rinehart is on to something. Imagine a world with a quick, healthy, affordable lunch substitute that negated the 'need' to eat fast food when you feel pressed for time at work... Thankfully this only happens to me 2 or 3 times a month , but I'm guessing that for most of America that's more like 2 or 3 times a week.

eru 14y ago
Couldn't you just fast those days? (And I mean you as in you, not those other Americans.)

markerdmann 14y ago

After reading the first Soylent post, I felt inspired to try and come up with a recipe for a "nutritionally complete" soup. I used an online tool that calculates the total nutrients for a recipe and came up with this: 3 potatoes 1 onion 500 grams of wild alaskan salmon 1/2 cup of mushrooms 3.5 tbsp of olive oil 30 grams of sunflower seeds 1 tbsp of dried parsley 2 tbsp of ground thyme 50 grams of parmesan cheese 3 cloves of garlic 20 grams of sesame seeds 1 medium oyster (from a can) 1 tbsp of ground mace 1 tsp of cod liver oil To cook it I just added everything to boiling water in order of cooking time, starting with the potatoes and onions and ending with the salmon. I tried making it last night and ate it for dinner and breakfast, and it was delicious! I also feel amazing. I guess I should track the effects of the recipe on quantified-mind.com. :-) I was actually surprised by how hard it was to fit all of the daily nutrient requirements into a recipe with about 2000-2500 calories (while also avoiding nutrient overdoses). It would be great if someone would create a website for "nutritionally complete" recipes, especially recipes that are cheap and easy to make with a good blender or crockpot.

abecedarius 14y ago
Neat experiment. If the cod liver oil's for vitamins, I think cooking will mess that up.
- cheeseprocedure 14y ago
  It would be really handy to have a table of common raw ingredients, the temperatures at which they become safe to eat (if applicable), and the temperature at which their various nutrients denature.
  - jaggederest 14y ago
    > the temperatures at which they become safe to eat (if applicable) Most modern food can be eaten raw. Or lightly seared to kill surface bacteria. Modern food safety is pretty neat. It probably won't taste great though. NB this does not apply to raw processed meat - for example, ground beef/pork/chicken is probably a bad bet. Surface area to volume ratios are key.

nathan_f77 14y ago

Hopefully moving to San Francisco in a few weeks. Very keen to get in touch and try it out.

Steko 14y ago

Via Wonkblog: For those of us who generally don’t like food, consider it an annoyance, and yearn for a way to avoid eating it, Soylent sounds immensely promising. But is it safe? Surprisingly, the answer from nutrition experts seems to be, “Yeah, probably.” Jay Mirtallo is a professor of pharmacy at Ohio State and the immediate past president of American Society for Parental Enteral Nutrition, which focuses on the science and practice of providing food to patients through both intravenous injections and feeding tubes. His main concern with Rhinehart’s plan is that he’s making the concoction himself, rather than buying it from reputable suppliers. “He basically made medical food,” Mirtallo says. “If he wanted to switch to a liquid diet, those are already available.” Indeed they are. Companies like Abbott Nutrition and NestléHealthScience sell dozens of medical food products. ... I asked Mirtallo if I could live a healthy life just drinking medical food from here on out. “You can completely,” he says. “But I don’t know why you’d want to. There are so many social aspects to food in what we do.” One potential downside is cost. Rhinehart claims that he only spends $154.82 a month on Soylent. By contrast, a case of 24 eight-ounce cans of Jevity 1.5cal, a high caloric density product Abbott sells for feeding tube patients, costs $57 from Abbott’s Web store. As each can has 355 calories in it, you’d need six cans a day to top the 2,000 calorie a day mark used in FDA nutrition data. So a 24-pack would last you about four days. That works out to 7-8 packs a month, which could cost up to $456. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/14/rob-rhinehart-has-a-crazy-plan-to-let-you-go-without-food-forever-it-just-might-work/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/14/r...

allforJesse 14y ago
And that's the question that's gone unasked, because we're focusing (understandably) on the health implications first: Could Soylent be scalably produced to feed 10% or more of the world's population? Would the material prices skyrocket in response to demand? Let's set aside the physiological consequences for a moment, what are the potential economic and environmental ramifications of Soylent?
- michaelbuckbee 14y ago
  Plumpy'nut [1] is food product specifically designed to be consumed by malnourished children. Given that the cost of it is around $30/mo I would actually guess that the barriers to adoption are political and social in nature and not technical. 1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpynut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpynut

sukuriant 14y ago

I think the biggest thing I want to remark here is that he needs to go to the doctor frequently while he's running these experiments. Once every couple of weeks or once every month. He could be doing serious harm to himself and he won't know until it's too late. Blood work might also give some interesting insights, such as "his bad cholesterol levels are lower than I've ever seen, this is amazing!" which would be useful in helping to push his encouragement of it.

caublestone 14y ago
In his previous blog posts, he discusses doctor visits. His cholesterol levels were unhealthy before he started the diet, now he is in the normal range. In order to sign up to be a tester, you must provide blood test results.

shurcooL 14y ago

I can't wait for the Kickstarter. But, it seems strange that this is coming from one guy rather than big companies. If it is possible to sell food/food replacement for cheaper this way, why hasn't anyone jumped on the chance to outsell others by selling for less?

rodly 14y ago
This is a good point. My thoughts are that Soylent and other cheap concoctions have a large acquired taste that most consumers can't get over.

dustinupdyke 14y ago

"I also stopped running 7 miles, which is really unnecessary and potentially harmful to the heart and joints" Source?

manmal 14y ago
I found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1837113/pdf/bmj00240-0029.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1837113/pdf/bmj0... Long-distance running is reported to predict hip joints degeneration. But it does not find out which distance is good and which is bad.
- NuZZ 14y ago
  I think he was after information concerning the heart and running as join degradation from running is, afaik, common knowledge. I was under the impression running improved heart strength. http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/heart-attack-risks-are-greater-for-athletes-who-compete-in-endurance-sports-263 http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/heart-attack-risks-are-great... Such articles state that endurance running (as opposed to sprints) , or any edurancy activity, increase heart attack chance. No exercise is purported as the greatest heart risk, so perhaps high intensity low endurance is best for heart health? I'd imagine it wouldn't build stamina.
muriithi 14y ago
Even more interesting is moving from running 7miles to pi miles

humanspecies 14y ago

All the time you "save" with this sort of bullshit diet will be spent in a hospital sooner than later. You need your fucking vegetables, you need fruit, you need to chew and you need to sleep. It's as simple as that.

auctiontheory 14y ago

All this talk of chemical drinks and medical foods and intermittent fasting reminds me of the saying about another diet regimen: "Do vegetarians live longer, or does it just feel that way?"

confluence 14y ago

This guy is effectively popularising something that has existed for ages in the medical/weight loss industries: namely medical food/meal replacement drinks. The difference is that he is using them daily, without paying the premium for an off the shelf, tested, and regulated version by doing it himself. My question for those more experienced in this area is: What well tested, off the shelf, medically regulated products could I buy today that would allow me to eliminate the consumption of solid food altogether - and of those products, which ones are the best value for money? I really can't be bothered doing all the leg work required to make my own meal replacement drink (reasons being: the chance of not measuring correctly + work + forgetting nutrients + risk) - I'd like to just grab a product every month or so and just go.

pbreit 14y ago
This all kind of sounds like the Jevity that they gave my dad in ICU. Apparently you can stay on it for quite some time. http://abbottnutrition.com/Products/jevity-1_2-cal http://abbottnutrition.com/Products/jevity-1_2-cal
- TheAnimus 14y ago
  Or Scandishake which appears to be a popular brand in the UK. I always remember trying to get my grandfarther to drink some when he was in the hospice, I used to bribe him by talking about an analogue circuit from the Art of Electronics, as he was mostly still in the mind of valves, but only if he finished the drink. :(
- girvo 14y ago
  My grandmother spent the last 1.5 years of her life on some high-calorie nutrient powder/drink. Even put on a bit of weight for a while.
Andrenid 14y ago
I've done 3-5 month stretches (multiple times) using Sustagen (the Hospital Formula[1] one from chemists, not the supermarket variety). It was during cancer surgeries and therapies, and recommended to me by the hospital + various specialist doctors, so that's the only vote of confidence I needed that it was OK. I had no side effects while on it, didn't lose or gain weight, and actually quite enjoyed not having to worry about shopping, cooking, washing up, etc. I also slept better, and all-round "felt" better. I've considered trying it longer term voluntarily, maybe try 6 months or so, and get the full gamut of medical tests done before and after, to see what they say. [1] http://www.sustagen.com.au/products/sustagen-hospital-formula/ http://www.sustagen.com.au/products/sustagen-hospital-formul...

nazgulnarsil 14y ago

Easy version (not nutritionally complete but a decent meal replacement) if anyone is interested, comments welcome. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdG56UTZoLVBEMHBqM0VJQUt6YmV0dUE https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdG5... I always add whey to this for additional protein, which I didn't list because composition varies and it is micronutrient poor anyway.

batgaijin 14y ago
Is he using whey right now? I think it'd be insanely cheap online.
- nazgulnarsil 14y ago
  2-3cents/gram of protein is usual if you shop by price. The whole shake comes in around $2 with a scoop (25g protein) of whey. Been getting ~50% of calories from this for the last year. Blood panel so far looks very very good, but I'm due for another one.
nazgulnarsil 14y ago
OJ version. I like this better. With vanilla whey it tastes like an orange julius. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdGZYM012N0JZTzEtVk05MVF4dlZyZ2c&usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdGZ...

goggles99 14y ago

This product would never work for me (I can't speak for everyone else) because such a thin, denatured substance transfers into the intestines (digests) rather quickly. This leaves the stomach empty and me feeling hungry. My brain starts to make me feel bad at this point. Even if I have consumed 4000 calories, it does not care. My brain wants some food in there. This is one of the same reasons why babies who can't eat solids yet need to eat so often? They can't even sleep all night because they wake up hungry. The day you start to feed them some cereal for dinner, they sleep much longer.

crusso 14y ago
Have you tried going on a low-carb diet? I found that after passing through the induction phase, my very healthy appetite was dramatically reduced. It was like flipping a switch. Suddenly, a normal salad felt satisfying and enough to be considered "a meal".
papsosouid 14y ago
I do something similar but I mix it into jello instead of just water. I find that helps with the fullness feeling, and it doesn't taste horrible.

paduc 14y ago

I wonder if this guy realizes his teeth are going to fall off. Since he has very little chewing action, the gums and underlying bone are going to go soft and eventually the teeth are going to begin falling off. But who cares, right? He doesn't really need his teeth. He should be prepared to accept a new and maybe uncommon physical shape.

claudius 14y ago
Bubble gum could help here.
zen_boy 14y ago
Someone proposed chewing gum as a way around this. This gives the jaw some exercise as well.
papsosouid 14y ago
>I wonder if this guy realizes his teeth are going to fall off. I wonder if people who say ridiculous stuff like this realize that there are already lots of people living on liquid diets, feeding tubes, or IV nutrition because of health problems. And their jaws don't magically turn to mush and their teeth don't fall out.

workbench 14y ago

> For those of us who generally don’t like food, consider it an annoyance, and yearn for a way to avoid eating it Words fail me

NuZZ 14y ago

"Scars that I'd had for years are barely visible now." Anyone have any idea whatthe root (ingredient) of this subjective observation may be?

lilsunnybee 14y ago
Delusional psychosis? confirmation bias?
illuminate 14y ago
Agreed with lilsunnybee, but these claims make it incredibly hard to take the rest seriously. The author is an unreliable narrator.

jilted3 14y ago

The problem with this idea long-term is that the body will 'plateau' and what may happen is decreased immunity and inability to adapt to natural seasonal and/or drastic weather changes. The body is not so simple as to be relegated to some normalizing diet. Food is as much about energetics than just protein/carbs/calories.