5 ms·

Tell HN: StackOverflow is just terrific

57 points by brandnewlow 18y ago

I just wanted to sing the praises of StackOverflow.com for a second. I wanted to put together a custom query to display a few key metrics for my social news site. The folks on IRC ignored a polite request and I found a few folks willing to help for $50/hour. Both of these were expected, sensible outcomes. StackOverflow came through with the answer in about 15 minutes. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/696289 The impressive part, to me at least, is that the initial answer posted wasn't yet easy enough for me to follow. I asked a few questions in the comments, more detail was added, I asked a few more questions and came back in a few hours and a copy-and-paste code snippet was waiting for me. A+

nopassrecover 18y ago
Raises the interesting points of a) when will regular coders start outsourcing their jobs on SO and b) when will the large community of "offshore" coders currently doing this sort of patch work swarm SO. Having said that, I have noticed that people are more likely to help helpful people so unless those people add value to the system first it is unlikely they'll get extreme amounts of help.
- Herring 18y ago
  I don't know how SO implemented their solution, but it's a solved problem, see bittorrent.
- StrawberryFrog 18y ago
  What do you mean by "start outsourcing their jobs on SO"? I've had situations where instead of spending another day struggling with an issue on my own, I post a problem description on SO before leaving work, and have a good idea or two waiting for me when I get back in the morning. Sometimes it was there already when I did a late night check. SO makes me more productive. My boss does not exactly object to that.
  - nopassrecover 18y ago
    I guess I'm thinking of freelance sites etc. reselling SO solutions.
adrianwaj 18y ago
People on Stack Overflow are generally very charitable. Thanks S.O. people.
richardw 18y ago
It's starting to come up a lot in Google searches, which is better than paid-for sites, say. Make an effort to read through all answers and up-rate those that are lower down but you think are better. Sometimes they're newer and better but people ignore them and just consider the top one.
draegtun 18y ago
Stackoverflow is informational, educational & addictive! Its "PerlMonks" for the general programming community.
axod 18y ago
>> "The folks on IRC ignored a polite request" People do tend to idle on IRC :/ You may need to try a few channels, or wait until someone is awake ;)
lbolognini 18y ago
Stack Overflow is ace!
Herring 18y ago
I've tried to get something like this for the math/physics communities, but they're lagging behind a few decades. That code release by cnprog was painful to watch.
jmatt 18y ago
Ok I can't be the only one that doesn't find answers at SO. The question that brandnewlow submitted was relatively simple and thus you found a quick answer. Try asking a challenging question and you are just as likely to find an old blog post with an answer as a StackOverflow answer. Now, I think SO has it's place. For instance when you are picking up a new language that is used in the industry. But I've rarely found answers there recently (C#, VB.NET or Lisp...). I agree that they are improving and that some of the these rare challenging questions are beginning to be answered (Woot no complaints). And that when they are answered the answers are usually correct. But it's far from terrific.
- praptak 18y ago
  Manage your expectations :) There are questions that are challenging by nature (objectively hard problems) and those that are challenging to me, mostly because of my lack of experience in a particular domain, but are no-brainers for an expert (or even someone who spent an hour RTFM-ing). For the latter ones, SO works like magic.
- jasonkester 18y ago
  I think that StackOverflow works best for beginners and Junior developers. Simple questions like the one here get answered quickly. The people answering questions are mostly beginners themselves, with a bunch of semi-experienced folks who want to show off their knowledge, and a few genuinely smart people thrown in for good measure. But you're right, you still won't be able to find help with anything genuinely tough there. The kind of people who could answer your question tend to also be the types who recognize the value of their time.
muon 18y ago
SO is just amazing, pretty much useful in every aspect of programming and software development.
petercooper 18y ago
It's cool, but I couldn't get into it - and I usually get into all of these sorts of sites. Why? People seem to answer questions almost instantaneously and as a new user I can't do anything to flagrantly incorrect answers. As a new user, I am next to powerless on there - at least on HN the only real "power" held back is downvoting. So I'm just a reader of SO and not a contributor - which is a shame really.
- sdragon 18y ago
  One method to fight "the fastest gun" problem, is to cherrypick good questions, and actually write well-written, detailed essays, along with samples. Although more time consuming, these answers usually float to the top in rather short time frames -adding more quality.
  - petercooper 18y ago
    and actually write well-written, detailed essays, along with samples. Unless the question is on a topic I love, that makes it into work. Is the point of SO to gain points to look clever in front of your peers or to actually help people? I'd rather just write a post blog to send someone to, since it stops other people editing it and I'd get all the credit and the traffic. Perhaps I'll give it another try - maybe it's settled down a lot since launch when pretty much every question was getting a quick fire answer in minutes.
  - archgrove 18y ago
    I've tried this approach; taking the time to give a detailed answer with reasoning behind my choices and explanations for areas that might be unclear. Two things happen: 1 - The fast, but "good enough" answer wins out for the short term 10+ votes (and "Accepted status), then the question falls into the mire, occasionally floating to the surface via a Google search, where I might get one or two votes. 2 - My answer is accepted, enough that noone else bothers to partake in the question, and it falls off the radar having received maybe 1 or 2 votes. In terms of getting good answers into the system, I guess things are working as intended. In terms of creating an engaging experience for the questioner and answerer, this seems sub-optimal.
pieter 18y ago
I just typed in a really long question on StackOverflow and pressed 'post', site is down and now I lost my question :( it's nice if it works though
csbartus 18y ago
yes, it is powered by joel, you really can't expect more.
- lubos 18y ago
  it's not really powered by joel. his technical contribution is roughly 1%. that's what it seems like from SO podcasts.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
geeko 18y ago
My question was answered within 5minutes. It's sick!
EastSmith 18y ago
Since SO is "Currently offline for maintenance", here is the question from Google cache: http://tinyurl.com/csjjxg http://tinyurl.com/csjjxg
cmos 18y ago
It has saved my butt on a few occasions already.. all within a couple hours. For 'non expert' programmers the answers always have actual code and not just high level explanations that take hours to figure out. I too can't say enough about it. Perhaps it's most appealing to people with lower level questions (like mine) that can be answered in 2 paragraphs?
mustpax 18y ago
Like everyone else said, SO is great for answering questions like yours. But if you have a more complicated question around code style or something more subjective it doesn't work as well. It really helps to update a question to clarify if answers seem inadequate. Because of the volume of answers, there's a tendency to post the shortest quickest answer. Otherwise you end up on the third page, unread and forgotten. Since it's not really a discussion forum, you have to learn to work with the question-answer format to be able to hash answers out and get real insight out of them. SO still feels a little off for me, partly because it's large and impersonal. The answers don't speak to each other (for good reason) so the whole thread feels disconnected, and doesn't seem to move forward too much.
acangiano 18y ago
A StackOverflow for the business of software would be a big success.
- johns 18y ago
  I'd be hesitant to provide business advice unless I were a lawyer or accountant and those guys aren't doing it for free. There's not enough questions either and you really don't want someone else telling you how to run your business. Find a trusted advisor and good reference material and figure it out. The scope is not nearly as big as programming questions. The place I work at built a small business resource and discussion site for a client with some similarities to SO and it's not doing so hot.
viggity 18y ago
Don't forget to mark a response as the "Accepted Answer", it'll give the poster some additional rep
- brandnewlow 18y ago
  I did forget. But I just went back and did it. Thanks!
scorpion032 18y ago
SO is the HN for programmer discussion ++1
ken 18y ago
If you're in one of the big languages on SO (C#, SQL, Python, Ruby), it's terrific. If you're trying to get help with some other language, I've found it to be far worse than mailing lists, IRC, or even USENET. In less-popular languages, the only questions are of the form "How/Should I learn $(lang)?". There's no Jon Skeet of Haskell there.
thenduks 18y ago
If you got the answer you needed you should really mark it as the accepted answer.

57 points by brandnewlow 18y ago

nopassrecover 18y ago

Raises the interesting points of a) when will regular coders start outsourcing their jobs on SO and b) when will the large community of "offshore" coders currently doing this sort of patch work swarm SO. Having said that, I have noticed that people are more likely to help helpful people so unless those people add value to the system first it is unlikely they'll get extreme amounts of help.

Herring 18y ago
I don't know how SO implemented their solution, but it's a solved problem, see bittorrent.
StrawberryFrog 18y ago
What do you mean by "start outsourcing their jobs on SO"? I've had situations where instead of spending another day struggling with an issue on my own, I post a problem description on SO before leaving work, and have a good idea or two waiting for me when I get back in the morning. Sometimes it was there already when I did a late night check. SO makes me more productive. My boss does not exactly object to that.
- nopassrecover 18y ago
  I guess I'm thinking of freelance sites etc. reselling SO solutions.

adrianwaj 18y ago

People on Stack Overflow are generally very charitable. Thanks S.O. people.

richardw 18y ago

It's starting to come up a lot in Google searches, which is better than paid-for sites, say. Make an effort to read through all answers and up-rate those that are lower down but you think are better. Sometimes they're newer and better but people ignore them and just consider the top one.

draegtun 18y ago

Stackoverflow is informational, educational & addictive! Its "PerlMonks" for the general programming community.

axod 18y ago

>> "The folks on IRC ignored a polite request" People do tend to idle on IRC :/ You may need to try a few channels, or wait until someone is awake ;)

lbolognini 18y ago

Stack Overflow is ace!

Herring 18y ago

I've tried to get something like this for the math/physics communities, but they're lagging behind a few decades. That code release by cnprog was painful to watch.

jmatt 18y ago

Ok I can't be the only one that doesn't find answers at SO. The question that brandnewlow submitted was relatively simple and thus you found a quick answer. Try asking a challenging question and you are just as likely to find an old blog post with an answer as a StackOverflow answer. Now, I think SO has it's place. For instance when you are picking up a new language that is used in the industry. But I've rarely found answers there recently (C#, VB.NET or Lisp...). I agree that they are improving and that some of the these rare challenging questions are beginning to be answered (Woot no complaints). And that when they are answered the answers are usually correct. But it's far from terrific.

praptak 18y ago
Manage your expectations :) There are questions that are challenging by nature (objectively hard problems) and those that are challenging to me, mostly because of my lack of experience in a particular domain, but are no-brainers for an expert (or even someone who spent an hour RTFM-ing). For the latter ones, SO works like magic.
jasonkester 18y ago
I think that StackOverflow works best for beginners and Junior developers. Simple questions like the one here get answered quickly. The people answering questions are mostly beginners themselves, with a bunch of semi-experienced folks who want to show off their knowledge, and a few genuinely smart people thrown in for good measure. But you're right, you still won't be able to find help with anything genuinely tough there. The kind of people who could answer your question tend to also be the types who recognize the value of their time.

muon 18y ago

SO is just amazing, pretty much useful in every aspect of programming and software development.

petercooper 18y ago

It's cool, but I couldn't get into it - and I usually get into all of these sorts of sites. Why? People seem to answer questions almost instantaneously and as a new user I can't do anything to flagrantly incorrect answers. As a new user, I am next to powerless on there - at least on HN the only real "power" held back is downvoting. So I'm just a reader of SO and not a contributor - which is a shame really.

sdragon 18y ago
One method to fight "the fastest gun" problem, is to cherrypick good questions, and actually write well-written, detailed essays, along with samples. Although more time consuming, these answers usually float to the top in rather short time frames -adding more quality.
- petercooper 18y ago
  and actually write well-written, detailed essays, along with samples. Unless the question is on a topic I love, that makes it into work. Is the point of SO to gain points to look clever in front of your peers or to actually help people? I'd rather just write a post blog to send someone to, since it stops other people editing it and I'd get all the credit and the traffic. Perhaps I'll give it another try - maybe it's settled down a lot since launch when pretty much every question was getting a quick fire answer in minutes.
- archgrove 18y ago
  I've tried this approach; taking the time to give a detailed answer with reasoning behind my choices and explanations for areas that might be unclear. Two things happen: 1 - The fast, but "good enough" answer wins out for the short term 10+ votes (and "Accepted status), then the question falls into the mire, occasionally floating to the surface via a Google search, where I might get one or two votes. 2 - My answer is accepted, enough that noone else bothers to partake in the question, and it falls off the radar having received maybe 1 or 2 votes. In terms of getting good answers into the system, I guess things are working as intended. In terms of creating an engaging experience for the questioner and answerer, this seems sub-optimal.

pieter 18y ago

I just typed in a really long question on StackOverflow and pressed 'post', site is down and now I lost my question :( it's nice if it works though

csbartus 18y ago

yes, it is powered by joel, you really can't expect more.

lubos 18y ago
it's not really powered by joel. his technical contribution is roughly 1%. that's what it seems like from SO podcasts.

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

geeko 18y ago

My question was answered within 5minutes. It's sick!

EastSmith 18y ago

Since SO is "Currently offline for maintenance", here is the question from Google cache: http://tinyurl.com/csjjxg http://tinyurl.com/csjjxg

cmos 18y ago

It has saved my butt on a few occasions already.. all within a couple hours. For 'non expert' programmers the answers always have actual code and not just high level explanations that take hours to figure out. I too can't say enough about it. Perhaps it's most appealing to people with lower level questions (like mine) that can be answered in 2 paragraphs?

mustpax 18y ago

Like everyone else said, SO is great for answering questions like yours. But if you have a more complicated question around code style or something more subjective it doesn't work as well. It really helps to update a question to clarify if answers seem inadequate. Because of the volume of answers, there's a tendency to post the shortest quickest answer. Otherwise you end up on the third page, unread and forgotten. Since it's not really a discussion forum, you have to learn to work with the question-answer format to be able to hash answers out and get real insight out of them. SO still feels a little off for me, partly because it's large and impersonal. The answers don't speak to each other (for good reason) so the whole thread feels disconnected, and doesn't seem to move forward too much.

acangiano 18y ago

A StackOverflow for the business of software would be a big success.

johns 18y ago
I'd be hesitant to provide business advice unless I were a lawyer or accountant and those guys aren't doing it for free. There's not enough questions either and you really don't want someone else telling you how to run your business. Find a trusted advisor and good reference material and figure it out. The scope is not nearly as big as programming questions. The place I work at built a small business resource and discussion site for a client with some similarities to SO and it's not doing so hot.

viggity 18y ago

Don't forget to mark a response as the "Accepted Answer", it'll give the poster some additional rep

brandnewlow 18y ago
I did forget. But I just went back and did it. Thanks!

scorpion032 18y ago

SO is the HN for programmer discussion ++1

ken 18y ago

If you're in one of the big languages on SO (C#, SQL, Python, Ruby), it's terrific. If you're trying to get help with some other language, I've found it to be far worse than mailing lists, IRC, or even USENET. In less-popular languages, the only questions are of the form "How/Should I learn $(lang)?". There's no Jon Skeet of Haskell there.

thenduks 18y ago

If you got the answer you needed you should really mark it as the accepted answer.