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Its a tough call, but I will say that it is not clear who the bully is in this situation. If the comments were made directly at someone, I am sure all will agr

Its a tough call, but I will say that it is not clear who the bully is in this situation. If the comments were made directly at someone, I am sure all will agree that this is grounds for consequences. However is it really a "safe space" if people are shamed publicly for what someone finds offensive BEFORE the matter is brought up to STAFF? I mean the two dudes in the photo may have grounds to say that they are the ones being harassed.

colabug 14y ago
It's not about her being offended by a particular comment, nor is it required that said comment be directed at her. The issue is the environment that is created when such things are quietly tolerated. Sure staff could have been involved, but then it's not a teachable moment, just another moment suffered in silence while the "authorities" handle the situation for her. It may seem like a small event to you, but I'd suggest reading about what I like to call "death by a thousand papercuts" (via @skud). There are TONS of "little" things that happen everyday that can be dismissed as insignificant, but they add up to an unwelcoming environment.
- jdunck 14y ago
  Staff were involved after the fact. The Code of Conduct, which these attendees agreed to, makes it clear that this behavior is not allowed. Very often with bad behavior, the offender is anonymous and intentional, and the subtext is: "what are you going to do about it?" Was this so bad? Should she have called out these people in this case? That question misses a larger point. So many such incidents (and much worse) go unchallenged that I'm happy Adria felt comfortable calling it out and asking the community to stand for the ideals it claims to hold. There's work left to be done, but we're heading in the right direction.
  - zshprompt 14y ago
    Agreed. It would be very bad if this went unchallenged. Its fantastic that women feel comfortable enough to speak out when they are made uncomfortable. But I still respectfully disagree that posting their picture BEFORE confronting them with staff was a good idea.
- zshprompt 14y ago
  I read that article when it came out. This is not a "lighten up honey situation". Adria has every right to be offended and absolutely every right to call out their bad behavior. I just feel in hindsight it would have been better if she gave the PyCon staff a chance to address the matter before posting pictures of people on twitter. It was her right to take a picture of those guys, its the posting before doing anything else that I humbly disagree with.
  - oh_sigh 14y ago
    > This is not a "lighten up honey situation". Adria has every right to be offended and absolutely every right to call out their bad behavior. Ah, so the only two choices are 1) condescending, sexist down-talk to a woman, or 2) a woman being rightfully offended. What about 3)a woman being non-rightfully offended?
  - thisiscrazy 14y ago
    Well actually I believe it is against the CoC to take pictures during the conference, so it wasn't her right at all. Yet that's ok because?
  - pythonuser 14y ago
    I agree. She was totally within her rights to complain about the joke. That ended however, when she took it public, on Twitter, instead of PyCon officials. In my opinion, her actions were far worse than the joke itself. And it doesn't matter if it was the most vile, disgusting sexist joke ever said. Her actions were wrong. And the PSF and PyCon have become so politically correct, they fail to see who the real victim is.
Phantom10 14y ago
So at the same time she accuses them of making sexual jokes. https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464 She is making her OWN sexual jokes, while STILL at PyCon. https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 -coughhypocritecough- Jokes are only okay when woman do them! Teehee~
- ben0x539 14y ago
  this but unironically. because sexism is the systemic oppression of women and not symmetrical
Samihah 14y ago
A PROFESSIONAL tech conference is not the time nor place to make lewd inappropriate jokes. Save that for golf outings with your former frat bros..
- oh_sigh 14y ago
  Totally agreed. That should go for tweeting sexist and lewd/inappropriate jokes during the conference, which is why we should find out who made this tweet and let them know that it is not okay: http://instagram.com/p/W3htw7gaR5/ http://instagram.com/p/W3htw7gaR5/
- DAnthropologist 14y ago
  You obviously have anger issues. You should see a psychologist.
DAnthropologist 14y ago
The type of person who is offended by humour, which is so important in a civilized society, deserves to be punished. Is this woman who complained about humour going to be fired because of her bad attitude and behavior? People who complain about other people usually have a lot of hypocrisy and psychological problems. I wonder if this woman will accept responsibility and quit her job with an apology for all the trouble she has caused. Unfortunately narcissists and bullies almost never admit when they are wrong, and they are often persuasive and manipulative enough to game the system in their favour.
bash2win 14y ago
hypocrite! https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 L2 take a joke

colabug 14y ago

It's not about her being offended by a particular comment, nor is it required that said comment be directed at her. The issue is the environment that is created when such things are quietly tolerated. Sure staff could have been involved, but then it's not a teachable moment, just another moment suffered in silence while the "authorities" handle the situation for her. It may seem like a small event to you, but I'd suggest reading about what I like to call "death by a thousand papercuts" (via @skud). There are TONS of "little" things that happen everyday that can be dismissed as insignificant, but they add up to an unwelcoming environment.

jdunck 14y ago
Staff were involved after the fact. The Code of Conduct, which these attendees agreed to, makes it clear that this behavior is not allowed. Very often with bad behavior, the offender is anonymous and intentional, and the subtext is: "what are you going to do about it?" Was this so bad? Should she have called out these people in this case? That question misses a larger point. So many such incidents (and much worse) go unchallenged that I'm happy Adria felt comfortable calling it out and asking the community to stand for the ideals it claims to hold. There's work left to be done, but we're heading in the right direction.
- zshprompt 14y ago
  Agreed. It would be very bad if this went unchallenged. Its fantastic that women feel comfortable enough to speak out when they are made uncomfortable. But I still respectfully disagree that posting their picture BEFORE confronting them with staff was a good idea.
zshprompt 14y ago
I read that article when it came out. This is not a "lighten up honey situation". Adria has every right to be offended and absolutely every right to call out their bad behavior. I just feel in hindsight it would have been better if she gave the PyCon staff a chance to address the matter before posting pictures of people on twitter. It was her right to take a picture of those guys, its the posting before doing anything else that I humbly disagree with.
- oh_sigh 14y ago
  > This is not a "lighten up honey situation". Adria has every right to be offended and absolutely every right to call out their bad behavior. Ah, so the only two choices are 1) condescending, sexist down-talk to a woman, or 2) a woman being rightfully offended. What about 3)a woman being non-rightfully offended?
- thisiscrazy 14y ago
  Well actually I believe it is against the CoC to take pictures during the conference, so it wasn't her right at all. Yet that's ok because?
- pythonuser 14y ago
  I agree. She was totally within her rights to complain about the joke. That ended however, when she took it public, on Twitter, instead of PyCon officials. In my opinion, her actions were far worse than the joke itself. And it doesn't matter if it was the most vile, disgusting sexist joke ever said. Her actions were wrong. And the PSF and PyCon have become so politically correct, they fail to see who the real victim is.

Phantom10 14y ago

So at the same time she accuses them of making sexual jokes. https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464 She is making her OWN sexual jokes, while STILL at PyCon. https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 -coughhypocritecough- Jokes are only okay when woman do them! Teehee~

ben0x539 14y ago
this but unironically. because sexism is the systemic oppression of women and not symmetrical

Samihah 14y ago

A PROFESSIONAL tech conference is not the time nor place to make lewd inappropriate jokes. Save that for golf outings with your former frat bros..

oh_sigh 14y ago
Totally agreed. That should go for tweeting sexist and lewd/inappropriate jokes during the conference, which is why we should find out who made this tweet and let them know that it is not okay: http://instagram.com/p/W3htw7gaR5/ http://instagram.com/p/W3htw7gaR5/
DAnthropologist 14y ago
You obviously have anger issues. You should see a psychologist.

DAnthropologist 14y ago

The type of person who is offended by humour, which is so important in a civilized society, deserves to be punished. Is this woman who complained about humour going to be fired because of her bad attitude and behavior? People who complain about other people usually have a lot of hypocrisy and psychological problems. I wonder if this woman will accept responsibility and quit her job with an apology for all the trouble she has caused. Unfortunately narcissists and bullies almost never admit when they are wrong, and they are often persuasive and manipulative enough to game the system in their favour.

bash2win 14y ago

hypocrite! https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425 L2 take a joke