4 ms·

Nice use of selective quoting. Heres another. "Other aspects of naturopathic medicine, like healthy nutrition, have been shown to lower the risk of illnesses s

by analog 14y ago

Nice use of selective quoting. Heres another. "Other aspects of naturopathic medicine, like healthy nutrition, have been shown to lower the risk of illnesses such as heart disease and cancer. Some aspects of naturopathic medicine may be useful when used along with conventional medical treatment." Like I said, you're simply choosing to ignore the evidence. If you'd like to stay ignorant of it then that's your right and your privilege.

Nursie 14y ago
Claiming decent nutrition or exercise as an aspect of CAM is disingenuous at best, and at worst a way to propagate charlatanry. "Look, we do this common sense thing, therefore the rest of our stuff must be true!" Eating well, getting rest and exercise, these things are not alt med, not naturopathic, not 'integrative', they are well supported aspects of evidence based medicine.
- analog 14y ago
  Well I suggest you take up your objections with the American Cancer Society because that's where the quote is from. Here's their contact form. http://www.cancer.org/aboutus/howwehelpyou/contactus/index http://www.cancer.org/aboutus/howwehelpyou/contactus/index
  - Nursie 14y ago
    I'm not American, so it's not really for me to bother them. Also it's not really false, is it? "Other aspects of naturopathic medicine, like healthy nutrition, have been shown..." Perfectly true information. Just irrelevant because those are aspects of mainstream medicine too. --edit-- but were I american and had medical credentials to my name, yes I absolutely would be writing to them to protest the existence of that page in its entirety. As it stands I'm just a British skeptic.
  - dalke 14y ago
    Just to be clear, your primary reference is The American Cancer Society, which is a non-profit charity. You know it's not a scientific research organization, right? And one which has a rather mediocre rating, as charities go? Why do you pick specifically that reference, which sits very carefully on the fence in order to find something good about naturopathic therapies? ("good diet" and "counseling" are, of course, quite common recommendations of any doctor) Why not reference an actual research organization which also has patient outreach? I'm thinking specifically of The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, of the NIH, at http://nccam.nih.gov/health/cancer/camcancer.htm http://nccam.nih.gov/health/cancer/camcancer.htm . They've gotten into political hot water because it was started and funded to find how if CAM is useful, only to report that no, it nearly isn't useful at all. That site NCCA describes only on the treatments which are specific to CAM, and not shared with standard medical practice.
    - analog 14y ago
      I did a quick google search and it was one of the first references that came up. I only have to provide a citation that CAM sometimes works to disprove Nursies assertion that CAM "doesn't work".
      - dalke 14y ago
        Nursie did not assert simply that all of CAM "doesn't work". Nursie pointed out that those aspects of CAM which do work are shared with traditional medicine, and have been part of traditional medicine for a long time. They are not specific to CAM. A naturopath may suggest that you always wear a seatbelt when driving a car. That doesn't make the suggestion part of naturopathy. A naturopath may suggest that you keep the safety on when carrying a firearm. Again, that's a good suggestion, but it's not something specific to naturopathy. The examples you pointed out on the Cancer Society web page are not unique to naturopathy. I interpret them as trying to say something good about naturopathy, probably because of so many complaints about how naturopathy is being 'suppressed by Western thought', or something like that. The NIH site I pointed you to reports on the CAM practices which are specific to CAM. Very few of them "work" in any fashion, and none of them are treatments.
dalke 14y ago
You do realize that many doctors who don't follow naturopathic medicine also recommend "healthy nutrition", right? And that many also recommend "counseling"? These are not the sole provenance of naturopathic medicine. They all probably recommend getting enough sleep and drinking enough water. In a related question, what is "healthy nutrition"? When Ayurveda says that onions "stimulate the central nervous system, and can disturb vows of celibacy" and should not be eaten as food (at least not by yogis), while nutritionists and researchers find no evidence that onions have those non-nutritional effects on the body and recommend that you can eat them if you like the taste, then whose advice should be followed, and why?

by analog 14y ago

Nursie 14y ago

Claiming decent nutrition or exercise as an aspect of CAM is disingenuous at best, and at worst a way to propagate charlatanry. "Look, we do this common sense thing, therefore the rest of our stuff must be true!" Eating well, getting rest and exercise, these things are not alt med, not naturopathic, not 'integrative', they are well supported aspects of evidence based medicine.

analog 14y ago
Well I suggest you take up your objections with the American Cancer Society because that's where the quote is from. Here's their contact form. http://www.cancer.org/aboutus/howwehelpyou/contactus/index http://www.cancer.org/aboutus/howwehelpyou/contactus/index
- Nursie 14y ago
  I'm not American, so it's not really for me to bother them. Also it's not really false, is it? "Other aspects of naturopathic medicine, like healthy nutrition, have been shown..." Perfectly true information. Just irrelevant because those are aspects of mainstream medicine too. --edit-- but were I american and had medical credentials to my name, yes I absolutely would be writing to them to protest the existence of that page in its entirety. As it stands I'm just a British skeptic.
- dalke 14y ago
  Just to be clear, your primary reference is The American Cancer Society, which is a non-profit charity. You know it's not a scientific research organization, right? And one which has a rather mediocre rating, as charities go? Why do you pick specifically that reference, which sits very carefully on the fence in order to find something good about naturopathic therapies? ("good diet" and "counseling" are, of course, quite common recommendations of any doctor) Why not reference an actual research organization which also has patient outreach? I'm thinking specifically of The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, of the NIH, at http://nccam.nih.gov/health/cancer/camcancer.htm http://nccam.nih.gov/health/cancer/camcancer.htm . They've gotten into political hot water because it was started and funded to find how if CAM is useful, only to report that no, it nearly isn't useful at all. That site NCCA describes only on the treatments which are specific to CAM, and not shared with standard medical practice.
  - analog 14y ago
    I did a quick google search and it was one of the first references that came up. I only have to provide a citation that CAM sometimes works to disprove Nursies assertion that CAM "doesn't work".
    - dalke 14y ago
      Nursie did not assert simply that all of CAM "doesn't work". Nursie pointed out that those aspects of CAM which do work are shared with traditional medicine, and have been part of traditional medicine for a long time. They are not specific to CAM. A naturopath may suggest that you always wear a seatbelt when driving a car. That doesn't make the suggestion part of naturopathy. A naturopath may suggest that you keep the safety on when carrying a firearm. Again, that's a good suggestion, but it's not something specific to naturopathy. The examples you pointed out on the Cancer Society web page are not unique to naturopathy. I interpret them as trying to say something good about naturopathy, probably because of so many complaints about how naturopathy is being 'suppressed by Western thought', or something like that. The NIH site I pointed you to reports on the CAM practices which are specific to CAM. Very few of them "work" in any fashion, and none of them are treatments.

dalke 14y ago

You do realize that many doctors who don't follow naturopathic medicine also recommend "healthy nutrition", right? And that many also recommend "counseling"? These are not the sole provenance of naturopathic medicine. They all probably recommend getting enough sleep and drinking enough water. In a related question, what is "healthy nutrition"? When Ayurveda says that onions "stimulate the central nervous system, and can disturb vows of celibacy" and should not be eaten as food (at least not by yogis), while nutritionists and researchers find no evidence that onions have those non-nutritional effects on the body and recommend that you can eat them if you like the taste, then whose advice should be followed, and why?