5 ms·

Their revenues may still be climbing, but the rate of increase has dropped significantly. They are losing market share in operating systems, office suites, and

by evgen 18y ago

Their revenues may still be climbing, but the rate of increase has dropped significantly. They are losing market share in operating systems, office suites, and browsers; they have an awful PR image and they have not had a "hit" product in more than a decade. It does not take an idiot to see that Microsoft has passed its peak and that the decline has begun.

mattmaroon 18y ago
You know, that's exactly the same argument people made to me 10 years ago when I started comp sci classes and made the mistake of asking some of the grad students why they hated Microsoft so much. Luckily for Microsoft, the other 99.99% of the population never got the memo. At the time I didn't know about Silicon Valley groupthink and I actually believed them. Of course their growth has slowed since their startup days, but for a company of their size it's incredibly impressive. See a chart of it here, noting that the next year after this graph was published it topped $60b: http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/05/21/will-googles-revenue-ever-surpass-microsofts/ http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/05/21/will-googles-revenue-eve... That's about 20% more than the year before it. Show me another company their size that did that last year. They don't have an awful PR image on Main Street, just on social news sites. Despite Apple spending hundreds of millions to tell the world how much they suck, 90%+ of people still use their products and like them just fine. And I think the Xbox 360 is a bona fide hit in anyone's book. I would argue that it does take an idiot to look at a company that went from $51b to $60b in revenues and see decline.
- axod 18y ago
  "And I think the Xbox 360 is a bona fide hit in anyone's book." That's an odd book you have there. The last I heard was that at least they are profitable now. However, there's 6 years or so of vastly unprofitable to pay back before they actually make any money from the venture. By that time we'll be into the next console war, and who wins that is anyones guess. (Whoever stops using discs for the love of god). People hate MS for a variety of reasons. My top 3: 1. Taste - they consistently implement bad solutions rather than good, elegant solutions. 2. The internet - they show consistently that they do not understand the internet. They loose enough money on it. They don't get advertising, building webapps, browsers, etc 3. Bullying - Squashing the competition and giving users a worse experience isn't nice. It holds back progress. Suing people because they use the FAT format is ridiculous and indefensible. The FAT format is so simple it's trivial. They are irrelevant to most people in any event. Unless you work in the corporate world.
  - unalone 18y ago
    Irrelevant is a tricky word, but I agree with your points. They're irrelevant in that they are no longer leaders. Arguably they still have a creative drive with the 360, but I'd argue that Nintendo is doing vastly more to change the world of video games than Microsoft is.
    - axod 18y ago
      Slightly off topic, but what the hell is the point in me buying an xBox360, with a large HDD, so I can store the games on it, if I still have to put each disc in when I want to play them? The next games console that actually solves that issue will do brilliantly. An improvement would be to just distribute the games on memory cards, and make the console have say 64 card slots. Then you can just load in all your fave game cartridges and play them, and the piracy issue is addressed. I agree, Nintendo is really pushing innovation which has paid off for them in terms of profit. My main point @ irrelevant was that most people these days wouldn't really care if their computer came with Windows, Ubuntu, OS X. As long as it has a browser.
      - unalone 18y ago
        I agree with that. I don't think most Windows users care what OS they're using, whereas a larger proportion of Mac/Linux users have made a firm commitment by picking their OS. I don't know much about the 360: I'm a Wii/PC gamer myself. The only really cool thing about the 360 is XBox Live, and I'll take online PC play over that any day. PC gamers are much classier, from my experience: the TF2 players are all pretty awesome.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    Apple fans always move the goal posts when discussing Microsoft. The iPhone sells 17m units, and it's a hit, despite having relatively small market share. The Xbox 360 sells 28m units (about 30% market share in its generation) leads its segment, and it's not a hit somehow. Microsoft is doing really, really well in the gaming space, in fact they lead the serious gamer market. They sell more games per unit at higher prices. They've been the clear leader in online connectivity and game distribution, with Nintendo and Sony lagging years behind them there, and they're doing a million downloads a week. They've also got the top game franchise with Halo, smashing sales records with each release. Comparing them to the Wii is like comparing the iPhone to a free-after-contract clamshell. Of course some of the clamshells sell many more units, but that doesn't make the iPhone a dud. And they're moving into the VOD space. They're now streaming tons of videos through Netflix and some of the built in stuff. Having a console attached to 28m TVs has given them the video distribution channel that Apple tried and failed miserably to get with the Apple TV, though I have a feeling that if that product sold 28m units you'd call it a hit.
- rythie 18y ago
  I not sure I see the reasoning that the 90%+ people that use Microsoft also all like it. I know lots of people who hate Microsoft products but still use them esp. non-techy users. They just don't see that there is a viable alternative. They see Apple products as too expensive (especially if they not in the market for a new machine anyway) and Linux is not a valid choice to them, if they have even heard of it. The Xbox 360 has widely reported (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems), ongoing, hardware faults and is beaten in sales by the Wii. It also still loses Microsoft money despite entering this market in 2001, whilst the Wii makes a profit.
  - Goronmon 18y ago
    The Xbox 360 has widely reported (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems), ongoing, hardware faults and is beaten in sales by the Wii. It also still loses Microsoft money despite entering this market in 2001, whilst the Wii makes a profit. The 360 is a much better gaming console. It does have the worst failure rate of any piece of hardware I've ever owned, as well as being the loudest. Yet I still play the heck out of it because the library is pretty amazing. Nintendo managed to produce a "trendy" product, but as a gamer myself, my Wii has been relatively unused for over a year. The Wii may be a success from a business perspective, but I'd say it's rather disappointing from a gaming perspective.
- Hexstream 18y ago
  "90%+ of people still use [Microsoft's] products and like them just fine." Actually quite a few of those people hate them with a passion. And most of them don't hate the products or Windows, they hate computers. They just don't know any better.

by evgen 18y ago

mattmaroon 18y ago

You know, that's exactly the same argument people made to me 10 years ago when I started comp sci classes and made the mistake of asking some of the grad students why they hated Microsoft so much. Luckily for Microsoft, the other 99.99% of the population never got the memo. At the time I didn't know about Silicon Valley groupthink and I actually believed them. Of course their growth has slowed since their startup days, but for a company of their size it's incredibly impressive. See a chart of it here, noting that the next year after this graph was published it topped $60b: http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/05/21/will-googles-revenue-ever-surpass-microsofts/ http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/05/21/will-googles-revenue-eve... That's about 20% more than the year before it. Show me another company their size that did that last year. They don't have an awful PR image on Main Street, just on social news sites. Despite Apple spending hundreds of millions to tell the world how much they suck, 90%+ of people still use their products and like them just fine. And I think the Xbox 360 is a bona fide hit in anyone's book. I would argue that it does take an idiot to look at a company that went from $51b to $60b in revenues and see decline.

axod 18y ago
"And I think the Xbox 360 is a bona fide hit in anyone's book." That's an odd book you have there. The last I heard was that at least they are profitable now. However, there's 6 years or so of vastly unprofitable to pay back before they actually make any money from the venture. By that time we'll be into the next console war, and who wins that is anyones guess. (Whoever stops using discs for the love of god). People hate MS for a variety of reasons. My top 3: 1. Taste - they consistently implement bad solutions rather than good, elegant solutions. 2. The internet - they show consistently that they do not understand the internet. They loose enough money on it. They don't get advertising, building webapps, browsers, etc 3. Bullying - Squashing the competition and giving users a worse experience isn't nice. It holds back progress. Suing people because they use the FAT format is ridiculous and indefensible. The FAT format is so simple it's trivial. They are irrelevant to most people in any event. Unless you work in the corporate world.
- unalone 18y ago
  Irrelevant is a tricky word, but I agree with your points. They're irrelevant in that they are no longer leaders. Arguably they still have a creative drive with the 360, but I'd argue that Nintendo is doing vastly more to change the world of video games than Microsoft is.
  - axod 18y ago
    Slightly off topic, but what the hell is the point in me buying an xBox360, with a large HDD, so I can store the games on it, if I still have to put each disc in when I want to play them? The next games console that actually solves that issue will do brilliantly. An improvement would be to just distribute the games on memory cards, and make the console have say 64 card slots. Then you can just load in all your fave game cartridges and play them, and the piracy issue is addressed. I agree, Nintendo is really pushing innovation which has paid off for them in terms of profit. My main point @ irrelevant was that most people these days wouldn't really care if their computer came with Windows, Ubuntu, OS X. As long as it has a browser.
    - unalone 18y ago
      I agree with that. I don't think most Windows users care what OS they're using, whereas a larger proportion of Mac/Linux users have made a firm commitment by picking their OS. I don't know much about the 360: I'm a Wii/PC gamer myself. The only really cool thing about the 360 is XBox Live, and I'll take online PC play over that any day. PC gamers are much classier, from my experience: the TF2 players are all pretty awesome.
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  Apple fans always move the goal posts when discussing Microsoft. The iPhone sells 17m units, and it's a hit, despite having relatively small market share. The Xbox 360 sells 28m units (about 30% market share in its generation) leads its segment, and it's not a hit somehow. Microsoft is doing really, really well in the gaming space, in fact they lead the serious gamer market. They sell more games per unit at higher prices. They've been the clear leader in online connectivity and game distribution, with Nintendo and Sony lagging years behind them there, and they're doing a million downloads a week. They've also got the top game franchise with Halo, smashing sales records with each release. Comparing them to the Wii is like comparing the iPhone to a free-after-contract clamshell. Of course some of the clamshells sell many more units, but that doesn't make the iPhone a dud. And they're moving into the VOD space. They're now streaming tons of videos through Netflix and some of the built in stuff. Having a console attached to 28m TVs has given them the video distribution channel that Apple tried and failed miserably to get with the Apple TV, though I have a feeling that if that product sold 28m units you'd call it a hit.
rythie 18y ago
I not sure I see the reasoning that the 90%+ people that use Microsoft also all like it. I know lots of people who hate Microsoft products but still use them esp. non-techy users. They just don't see that there is a viable alternative. They see Apple products as too expensive (especially if they not in the market for a new machine anyway) and Linux is not a valid choice to them, if they have even heard of it. The Xbox 360 has widely reported (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems), ongoing, hardware faults and is beaten in sales by the Wii. It also still loses Microsoft money despite entering this market in 2001, whilst the Wii makes a profit.
- Goronmon 18y ago
  The Xbox 360 has widely reported (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems), ongoing, hardware faults and is beaten in sales by the Wii. It also still loses Microsoft money despite entering this market in 2001, whilst the Wii makes a profit. The 360 is a much better gaming console. It does have the worst failure rate of any piece of hardware I've ever owned, as well as being the loudest. Yet I still play the heck out of it because the library is pretty amazing. Nintendo managed to produce a "trendy" product, but as a gamer myself, my Wii has been relatively unused for over a year. The Wii may be a success from a business perspective, but I'd say it's rather disappointing from a gaming perspective.
Hexstream 18y ago
"90%+ of people still use [Microsoft's] products and like them just fine." Actually quite a few of those people hate them with a passion. And most of them don't hate the products or Windows, they hate computers. They just don't know any better.