3 ms·

Right, but if you've tried doctors and they haven't been able to help, and if you have heard of a treatment which anecdotally works, and has no reported side ef

by analog 14y ago

Right, but if you've tried doctors and they haven't been able to help, and if you have heard of a treatment which anecdotally works, and has no reported side effects, then why wouldn't you try it. If it works for you then you still have a sample size of one but this would be good enough.

Nursie 14y ago
That depends on what the condition is, how trustworthy the anecdotes are and how much someone was trying to charge me for it. For instance in the case of terminal cancer, some people get ripped off by charlatans to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. The anecdotal data around these assholes is all overwhelmingly positive and claims no side effects, because people who are ripped off and then die tend not to talk about it but the very few who survive for reasons unknown shout a lot. The reason you might not try it is because you'd be bankrupting the family you're going to leave behind, or funneling good-will donations to a conman. There are numerous examples of alt-med 'cures' that are dreadfully harmful (black salve, sodium hypochlorite enemas). This idea that CAM is fine to try if you're out of options because it has no side effects is itself very dodgy. Hell, even acupuncture carries some elevated risk of infection because you're pushing needles through the skin. But if it was something minor, cheap and there really were no side effects, sure - why not? --edit-- But telling if there really are no side effects does require some basis in provable fact, or you're just necking unknown quantities of unknown stuff, which may not be a great plan.
- analog 14y ago
  "That depends on what the condition is, how trustworthy the anecdotes are and how much someone was trying to charge me for it." This is true for any medical treatment. You weigh up the costs, risks, benefits and then you decide if you want to go ahead with it. There are also numerous examples of normal medicine cures that have been dreadfully harmful. Thalidomide and SSRIs to name a couple off the top of my head,
  - Nursie 14y ago
    "This is true for any medical treatment. You weigh up the costs, risks, benefits and then you decide if you want to go ahead with it." Absolutely, but medical treatments should have reliable data available (not saying they always do). In contrast alt med never does (that's what makes it alt), but instead has cheerleaders and woo. "There are also numerous examples of normal medicine cures that have been dreadfully harmful. Thalidomide and SSRIs to name a couple off the top of my head," Yup, and now we know the harms and don't use these things. (What's your point?). Whereas with alt-med this doesn't seem to happen.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    "There are also numerous examples of normal medicine cures that have been dreadfully harmful. Thalidomide and SSRIs to name a couple off the top of my head," I also want to say that this is pretty disingenuous as a statement because I named harmful CAM treatments in response to your question "if you have heard of a treatment which anecdotally works, and has no reported side effects, then why wouldn't you try it?". I was pointing out that alt med really cannot claim to have no side effects. It often does claim this, but it cannot. Many medicines have dreadful side-effects, yes, even the ones we still use, but these are measured and quantified and (in theory) the treatments are only used if the main effect is worth it. With alt med there often are side effects and there is no proof that any of it works, by definition.

by analog 14y ago

Nursie 14y ago

That depends on what the condition is, how trustworthy the anecdotes are and how much someone was trying to charge me for it. For instance in the case of terminal cancer, some people get ripped off by charlatans to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. The anecdotal data around these assholes is all overwhelmingly positive and claims no side effects, because people who are ripped off and then die tend not to talk about it but the very few who survive for reasons unknown shout a lot. The reason you might not try it is because you'd be bankrupting the family you're going to leave behind, or funneling good-will donations to a conman. There are numerous examples of alt-med 'cures' that are dreadfully harmful (black salve, sodium hypochlorite enemas). This idea that CAM is fine to try if you're out of options because it has no side effects is itself very dodgy. Hell, even acupuncture carries some elevated risk of infection because you're pushing needles through the skin. But if it was something minor, cheap and there really were no side effects, sure - why not? --edit-- But telling if there really are no side effects does require some basis in provable fact, or you're just necking unknown quantities of unknown stuff, which may not be a great plan.

analog 14y ago
"That depends on what the condition is, how trustworthy the anecdotes are and how much someone was trying to charge me for it." This is true for any medical treatment. You weigh up the costs, risks, benefits and then you decide if you want to go ahead with it. There are also numerous examples of normal medicine cures that have been dreadfully harmful. Thalidomide and SSRIs to name a couple off the top of my head,
- Nursie 14y ago
  "This is true for any medical treatment. You weigh up the costs, risks, benefits and then you decide if you want to go ahead with it." Absolutely, but medical treatments should have reliable data available (not saying they always do). In contrast alt med never does (that's what makes it alt), but instead has cheerleaders and woo. "There are also numerous examples of normal medicine cures that have been dreadfully harmful. Thalidomide and SSRIs to name a couple off the top of my head," Yup, and now we know the harms and don't use these things. (What's your point?). Whereas with alt-med this doesn't seem to happen.
- Nursie 14y ago
  "There are also numerous examples of normal medicine cures that have been dreadfully harmful. Thalidomide and SSRIs to name a couple off the top of my head," I also want to say that this is pretty disingenuous as a statement because I named harmful CAM treatments in response to your question "if you have heard of a treatment which anecdotally works, and has no reported side effects, then why wouldn't you try it?". I was pointing out that alt med really cannot claim to have no side effects. It often does claim this, but it cannot. Many medicines have dreadful side-effects, yes, even the ones we still use, but these are measured and quantified and (in theory) the treatments are only used if the main effect is worth it. With alt med there often are side effects and there is no proof that any of it works, by definition.