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> We Should Be Allowed to Unlock Everything We Own You don't own a subsidised cell phone until your contract is out.
by mseebach 14y ago
> We Should Be Allowed to Unlock Everything We Own
You don't own a subsidised cell phone until your contract is out.
- larvaetron 14y agoA contract for 12/24 months of service has nothing to do with ownership of the phone. If you paid for it, it's yours.
- mokus 14y agoThat's exactly the point. You didn't pay for it until you gave them their 12/24 months of service fees (or early-termination fee).
- pasbesoin 14y agoAn argument against this has been that, regardless of the phone's status -- locked or unlocked -- you are bound by the terms of the contract you entered. Specifically, you are still paying the monthly fee and so paying off the subsidy on the phone (one can argue, although a true, cost-based accounting argument might have you paying off that subsidy in a smaller subset of the initial months). What unlocking then provides, is the ability to escape onerous terms and fees for additional service, such as roaming fees when traveling outside of the normal service area. If, with a GSM model, for example, you can pop in a different SIM under those circumstances, should you be able to? Given some the the shenanigans that have occurred in this industry, including outsized roaming fees, I tend to be in favor of saying "yes", to this. Or, put it this way: Competition's good. Even, or especially, within the term of rather long (with respect to technical and economic developments within the telecommunications industry) two year contracts. If, with a bit of effort and trouble, you can escape absurd roaming fees, new data cap restrictions, et al. Then, perhaps, your current, contracted carrier will feel more incentive to compete with reasonable terms and pricing.
- betterunix 14y agoThis is like claiming that you did not pay for your milk unless you also purchased other groceries when your local supermarket uses a loss-leader strategy.
- anigbrowl 14y agoNo it's not the same at all. The ads say '$199 with contract.' And the fine print always explains you have to enter into a 2 year contract with the cell service provider, and that said contract will make you liable for early termination fees etc. if you try to skip out of it. For the last decade I've bought my phones unlocked and subscribed to a monthly plan that I can leave at any time. That means paying full price for the phone at the time of purchase, which is a lot more than the discount prices used to tempt you into a contract. Look, just because it's in your pocket and you get to use it as soon as you leave the store does not mean you own it.
- betterunix 14y ago"Look, just because it's in your pocket and you get to use it as soon as you leave the store does not mean you own it." So who owns it? When last I checked, there was no line of credit, I am allowed to sell the phone to someone else without informing the carrier, and I am responsible for repairing any damage or replacing the phone if it is rendered non-functional. It sounds like I paid the carrier's price, signed a contract, and then owned the phone (while being locked into a contract). There is more to this than just the carrier's contract. Let's say I travel to another country, and I want to pay for a phone plan there so that I do not have to pay roaming charges. I'll need to unlock my phone to do that...and now by law I cannot (at least not here in America). For that matter, suppose I am here in America and I want to have two contracts with two different carriers on the same phone...once again, the law stops me. This is, plain and simple, a law that protects the carriers' business model in ways that other businesses are not protected. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the free market is relevant here. It is not a free market when some players get special privileges and protections not available to other players. Cell phone companies get lots of special privileges, and this is just one more to add to that list.
- anigbrowl 14y agoBut you haven't paid for it. You've typically paid for about 1/3 of it, and agreed to a contract which specifies a 2-year payment schedule for rest as part of your phone bill.
- amalcon 14y agoYes you have. You "paid for it" when you signed the contract, to which you are obligated regardless of what happens to your phone. A mobile phone contract is not a loan; the phone is not collateral. You can't choose to give back your phone in lieu of an early termination fee.
- anigbrowl 14y agoAnd the early termination fee is prorated to the outstanding term of your contract. The difference from (say) a car lease simply reflects the difficulty of repossessing your phone. Meanwhile, if you get tired of the contract, you just breach it and pay the ETF. then you can unlock your phone immediately.
- amalcon 14y agoNo; the difference from (say) a car loan reflects the fact that there's no lien created on the phone. That in turn may be because such a lien would be unenforceable. Still, the reason there's no lien is not relevant. Its absence is relevant.
- Sanddancer 14y agoI don't "own" a car I buy on loan until I pay that off. That doesn't preclude me from replacing seats, putting in a turbo, etc. Why should a phone be different?
- res0nat0r 14y agoYou can do many of those things to your car, but some of them might nullify your warranty.
- sukuriant 14y agoWarranties are unrelated to cell phone unlockers. You can modify your car to comply with different company requirements. Volvo (or whoever) is just going to not honor their promise to fix things.
- Sanddancer 14y agoYes, they may void the warranty. That's not the same as a federal crime.
- betterunix 14y agoYeah but I can still go to a mechanic and do those things. When it comes to phones, the businesses that might unlock them are now gone by law. A handy position for cell phone companies: their loss leader strategy is given special legal protections.
- forgottenpaswrd 14y agoYou do, the car is yours. But you also own obligations to pay back a loan and interest to a bank. Technically you have a credit and debit sheet, a new asset plus a new liability.
- rayiner 14y agoSince an auto-loan is secured by the vehicle, your lender can and does put conditions on your use of the vehicle. E.g. they may require you to carry full collision & comprehensive insurance on the vehicle even if your state doesn't require it. In this situation, the lender is your carrier, and attaches a different set of conditions.
- betterunix 14y agoExcept for the part where the company sells the phone to you without extending any lines of credit. This is not like buying a house or a car using loan money.
- Nursie 14y agoCool, so if I unlock it before time it could be a breech or contract? And once the contract expires I can do it anyway? And sell software that helps other people do the same? Oh wait no, it's a DMCA violation and a criminal offence, well that all seems fair and proportionate.
- davidroberts 14y agoThis is not true, at least for Verizon where I worked. Your payment for the phone was your agreement to the contract. After that you can sell, trade, destroy, or do anything else you want with the phone, except if you rooted it, the warranty was voided and no updates until you brought it back to stock.