5 ms·

Startup engineers

44 points by giis 14y ago

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
toadyfrog 14y ago
At some point, hopefully soon, engineers as a whole will start to realize they are being taken advantage of and learn how to negotiate better. Anyone up for a company hack day where we get to work over time without getting paid overtime?
- pmelendez 14y ago
  "realize they are being taken advantage of and learn how to negotiate better" I am not so optimistic about that, my friends and I are similar in these matters. We don't want to negotiate those things... We just want to build cool things, and people continue to take advantage of that. There is hope if you become indie and have the "bad" luck of not being acquired while also manage to be decently successful. Outside of that, it's just a vicious circle.
  - derwiki 14y ago
    Ten minutes of negotiation could get you 10k, easily. I don't come across more high leverage uses of my time than that. And with more money, you can do cool things like start a scholarship or otherwise give your money away. It's money you almost didn't have anyway, right?
    - pmelendez 14y ago
      Oh.. don't get me wrong, it is not like I don't care about money, it's just I don't have the personality to do that. It's just like haggling. Sure, I would prefer having two cool things instead of one when you go to those markets, but I just don't the personality (or skills?) to bring that up. And in my circle of friends I am not alone, which makes me think that it might be a more common problem that I would imagined.
      - aantix 14y ago
        Why are you insecure about it? I'd encourage you to explore the feelings that arise inside of you when negotiations occur. And if you can't do the haggling in person, defer on negotiating a number at that time and then negotiate over email?
- RougeFemme 14y ago
  I don't think the general personality traits of engineers lend themselves to "negotiating better".. . this is based on observing engineers that I respect and admire.
bcbrown 14y ago
Some links on negotiation that I use when negotiating over job offers: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2008/03/16/bargaining-with-your-right-brain/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2008/03/16/bargaining-with-your-ri... http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://jnorthrop.tumblr.com/post/16631034370/salary-negotiations-dont-be-tough-be-honest http://jnorthrop.tumblr.com/post/16631034370/salary-negotiat... http://www.negotiatingguide.com/negotiation/powerarticle.htm http://www.negotiatingguide.com/negotiation/powerarticle.htm
- aantix 14y ago
  But negotiating a deal at acquisition is slightly different. The terms of the deal are largely going to be held secret and the CEO will tell you anything to keep you on board (they don't want a mass exodus and have the deal sink). They may even defer revealing the deal terms until AFTER the acquisition has occurred. If you see this happening, more than likely you're going to get a shit deal, and the only leverage you have is to WALK. If they don't give a counter offer, you were going to get a shit deal anyways so it doesn't matter. If they do give a counter offer, then you know you were integral to a successful deal and now you have some negotiation leverage.

44 points by giis 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

At some point, hopefully soon, engineers as a whole will start to realize they are being taken advantage of and learn how to negotiate better. Anyone up for a company hack day where we get to work over time without getting paid overtime?

pmelendez 14y ago
"realize they are being taken advantage of and learn how to negotiate better" I am not so optimistic about that, my friends and I are similar in these matters. We don't want to negotiate those things... We just want to build cool things, and people continue to take advantage of that. There is hope if you become indie and have the "bad" luck of not being acquired while also manage to be decently successful. Outside of that, it's just a vicious circle.
- derwiki 14y ago
  Ten minutes of negotiation could get you 10k, easily. I don't come across more high leverage uses of my time than that. And with more money, you can do cool things like start a scholarship or otherwise give your money away. It's money you almost didn't have anyway, right?
  - pmelendez 14y ago
    Oh.. don't get me wrong, it is not like I don't care about money, it's just I don't have the personality to do that. It's just like haggling. Sure, I would prefer having two cool things instead of one when you go to those markets, but I just don't the personality (or skills?) to bring that up. And in my circle of friends I am not alone, which makes me think that it might be a more common problem that I would imagined.
    - aantix 14y ago
      Why are you insecure about it? I'd encourage you to explore the feelings that arise inside of you when negotiations occur. And if you can't do the haggling in person, defer on negotiating a number at that time and then negotiate over email?
RougeFemme 14y ago
I don't think the general personality traits of engineers lend themselves to "negotiating better".. . this is based on observing engineers that I respect and admire.

bcbrown 14y ago

Some links on negotiation that I use when negotiating over job offers: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2008/03/16/bargaining-with-your-right-brain/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2008/03/16/bargaining-with-your-ri... http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://jnorthrop.tumblr.com/post/16631034370/salary-negotiations-dont-be-tough-be-honest http://jnorthrop.tumblr.com/post/16631034370/salary-negotiat... http://www.negotiatingguide.com/negotiation/powerarticle.htm http://www.negotiatingguide.com/negotiation/powerarticle.htm

aantix 14y ago
But negotiating a deal at acquisition is slightly different. The terms of the deal are largely going to be held secret and the CEO will tell you anything to keep you on board (they don't want a mass exodus and have the deal sink). They may even defer revealing the deal terms until AFTER the acquisition has occurred. If you see this happening, more than likely you're going to get a shit deal, and the only leverage you have is to WALK. If they don't give a counter offer, you were going to get a shit deal anyways so it doesn't matter. If they do give a counter offer, then you know you were integral to a successful deal and now you have some negotiation leverage.