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>Life expectancy FROM BIRTH has risen dramatically, but if you rule out those who died before they reached 5 years old, and rule out violent deaths and/or viral

>Life expectancy FROM BIRTH has risen dramatically, but if you rule out those who died before they reached 5 years old, and rule out violent deaths and/or viral/bacterial plagues, you begin to realize that life expectancy is not much higher today. That is a myth. Life expectancy is much higher at all ages. In ancient Rome, the life expectancy for a 15 year old was 52. In modern first world nations, life expectancy at birth is 80. That is a huge extension of adult lifespan. Just because infant mortality was part of the reason lifespans were lower in ancient times, doesn't mean it was the whole reason.

JPKab 14y ago
And you don't think the life expectancy for a 15 year old being 52 didn't have to do with deaths due to disease/violence? Let's look at a familiar group of people who had zero access to antibiotics nor modern medicine. America's founding fathers: "For their era, the 1787 delegates (like the 1776 signers) were average in terms of life spans.[15] Their average age at death was about 67. The first to die was Houston in 1788; the last was Madison in 1836. Secretary Charles Thomson lived to the age of 94. Johnson died at 92. John Adams lived to the age of 90. A few—Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Williamson, and Wythe—lived into their eighties. Either 15 or 16 (depending on Fitzsimons's exact age) died in their seventies, 20 or 21 in their sixties, eight in their fifties, and five only in their forties. Three (Alexander Hamilton, Richard Dobbs Spaight and Button Gwinnett) were killed in duels."
- papsosouid 14y ago
  I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Of course their lower lifespan was partly due to disease, that is the point.
  - JPKab 14y ago
    No, its not the point. Did you even read the article? The article is making a claim that the specific "diseases of civilization" (heart disease, cancer, diabetes) would have been equally prevalent in primitive societies IF people had actually made it to old age. There is zero discussion or argument about the fact that people died of random shit that is today easily cured. The argument is due to the fact that the people that DIDN't die due to random pathogens/violent acts/etc DID live to comparable levels of old age, and the author doesn't get that. When more than half of children die before age 5, it skews the life expectancy statistic the author is citing to claim that there were no old people around to get heart disease or cancer. This is completely incorrect.
    - papsosouid 14y ago
      >The article is making a claim that the specific "diseases of civilization" (heart disease, cancer, diabetes) would have been equally prevalent in primitive societies IF people had actually made it to old age Right. And you pretended that they did make it to old age and infant mortality was the cause of lower lifespans. I corrected that misconception. I honestly have no idea how you got this confused. >DIDN't die due to random pathogens/violent acts/etc DID live to comparable levels of old age No, they didn't. That's the point. Hitting 80 was exceptionally rare. Rare like hitting 110 is now.

JPKab 14y ago

And you don't think the life expectancy for a 15 year old being 52 didn't have to do with deaths due to disease/violence? Let's look at a familiar group of people who had zero access to antibiotics nor modern medicine. America's founding fathers: "For their era, the 1787 delegates (like the 1776 signers) were average in terms of life spans.[15] Their average age at death was about 67. The first to die was Houston in 1788; the last was Madison in 1836. Secretary Charles Thomson lived to the age of 94. Johnson died at 92. John Adams lived to the age of 90. A few—Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Williamson, and Wythe—lived into their eighties. Either 15 or 16 (depending on Fitzsimons's exact age) died in their seventies, 20 or 21 in their sixties, eight in their fifties, and five only in their forties. Three (Alexander Hamilton, Richard Dobbs Spaight and Button Gwinnett) were killed in duels."

papsosouid 14y ago
I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Of course their lower lifespan was partly due to disease, that is the point.
- JPKab 14y ago
  No, its not the point. Did you even read the article? The article is making a claim that the specific "diseases of civilization" (heart disease, cancer, diabetes) would have been equally prevalent in primitive societies IF people had actually made it to old age. There is zero discussion or argument about the fact that people died of random shit that is today easily cured. The argument is due to the fact that the people that DIDN't die due to random pathogens/violent acts/etc DID live to comparable levels of old age, and the author doesn't get that. When more than half of children die before age 5, it skews the life expectancy statistic the author is citing to claim that there were no old people around to get heart disease or cancer. This is completely incorrect.
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    >The article is making a claim that the specific "diseases of civilization" (heart disease, cancer, diabetes) would have been equally prevalent in primitive societies IF people had actually made it to old age Right. And you pretended that they did make it to old age and infant mortality was the cause of lower lifespans. I corrected that misconception. I honestly have no idea how you got this confused. >DIDN't die due to random pathogens/violent acts/etc DID live to comparable levels of old age No, they didn't. That's the point. Hitting 80 was exceptionally rare. Rare like hitting 110 is now.