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> Ayurveda is bullshit My wife is an Ayurvedic practitioner, so yes I am biased, but I dont believe in every aspect of it. I can definitely say it is not "bull

> Ayurveda is bullshit My wife is an Ayurvedic practitioner, so yes I am biased, but I dont believe in every aspect of it. I can definitely say it is not "bullshit" and it is indeed helping many of her clients. She has people who come to her, that conventional docs have literally given up on. "We cant figure out what is wrong with your digestion, theres nothing more we can try" she hears stories like that all the time. People ARE being helped. Whether it is all placebo I dont know for sure. but people who literally have no other options in conventional medicine are seeing real results. They are sleeping better w/o medication, they are not having anxiety attacks anymore, I could go on and on with her stories. My wife is pretty humble about it and not selling snake oil etc. People are seeing real results.

Nursie 14y ago
If there is an effect that's measurable above placebo we should absolutely find out what it is and why it works. Otherwise it's just like the rest of these things. My statement, however, was not about whether your wife can make people feel better in ill-defined ways, it was about the ludicrous claims above on herbs and 'poison'.
amalag 14y ago
It doesn't follow the western model of logic, which is why uninformed people who cannot understand subtleties insist on displaying their boarishness. For instance ayurveda says the stomach has digestive fire, it does not give you a list of chemicals which break down food. Rather it seeks to strengthen that digestive fire. If you want to peek in there with a catheter and say "Nope, there is no fire, ayurveda is bullshit" Well then, best of luck with your clinical trials trying to experiment on the newest medicines. There is value in that. It is not based on an inductive experimental approach so it does not fit with most western scientists. The idea is it is like an instruction manual, not reverse engineering. The human body was not evolved from some random processes for us to reverse engineer, rather there is an inherent design and ayurveda explains it. People may not agree with those depths of it, but that is the origin and philosophy.
- Nursie 14y ago
  "The human body was not evolved from some random processes for us to reverse engineer, rather there is an inherent design and ayurveda explains it." Hooray, you've admitted you're peddling religion, and creationism at that. Well done.
- dalke 14y ago
  You ascribe an overly reductionist viewpoint on scientific thought. The scientific analysis would be to note that 'digestive fire' might not literally be a fire (just like 'I've got the runs' doesn't mean that I want to run). The corresponding experiment would be "if person X is treated with Y1 then does outcome Z occur with any statistical difference compared to treatment with Y2", where "Y2" can be "doing nothing." This has nothing to do with peering inside the body, only with outcomes. Once a difference has been identified, then it's reasonable to try to identify how 'digestive fire' might map to aspects of the body. There are well more than trillions of possible treatments, so as a strategy a scientist will use a model of how the body works in order to prioritize the investigation. For example, the presence of a single butterfly between 50 and 100 meters away certainly does not affect most people's digestion, and can be put very low on the list of parameters to explore. The only part of the "western model of logic" which applies is determining if the treatment had an beneficial effect. If you say that that doesn't apply, then you also throw out the possibility of determining if a treatment isn't actually effective.
  - amalag 14y ago
    Yes there can be scientific determinations done on ayurvedic treatments and some are done. I should not through the baby with the bathwater as they say. Ayurveda is largely about lifestyle and diet. But varies from person to person. I am sure there will be more sophisticated tests done which can show efficacies of the results. A gross example is heartburn. if you have heartburn do you just take a pill for it or adjust your lifestyle and diet? I am sure there can be more sophisticated experiments done which can show efficacies of treatments. You are right that we cannot through out logical thinking.
    - 14y ago
Cthulhu_ 14y ago
> They are sleeping better w/o medication, they are not having anxiety attacks anymore, I could go on and on with her stories. I would definitely attribute sleeping and anxiety problems as mental issues; medication will try to mess with the body's (brain)chemistry to fix it, but, whilst not into alternative medicine, I do think non-chemical treatments - psychology, relaxation therapy, physical therapy - can help with that category of ailments.
Nursie 14y ago
I would add to my other response that your wife is probably a very caring and patient person, and by listening to people with trouble, taking time to understand them, and doing whatever it is she does with ayurveda, I have no doubt at all that she helps people. I wouldn't even rule out that ayurveda itself is helping them as well as just spending time being listened to and relaxing as a result. I don't know much about it and if there are dietary, meditative and exercise aspects then it's probably doing her patients a power of good! I just think the other poster's talk about poisons is rubbish :) My 'bullshit' comment was a sort of a logical construction. If some of the 'facts' upon which Ayurveda is predicated can be shown to be wrong, Ayurveda as a thought system is wrong (it produces incorrect results). Doesn't mean everything about it is wrong, just that it doesn't always make good predictions/proclamations. A bit like... I don't believe in Jesus but the whole 'do unto others' line is awesome :)

Nursie 14y ago

If there is an effect that's measurable above placebo we should absolutely find out what it is and why it works. Otherwise it's just like the rest of these things. My statement, however, was not about whether your wife can make people feel better in ill-defined ways, it was about the ludicrous claims above on herbs and 'poison'.

amalag 14y ago

It doesn't follow the western model of logic, which is why uninformed people who cannot understand subtleties insist on displaying their boarishness. For instance ayurveda says the stomach has digestive fire, it does not give you a list of chemicals which break down food. Rather it seeks to strengthen that digestive fire. If you want to peek in there with a catheter and say "Nope, there is no fire, ayurveda is bullshit" Well then, best of luck with your clinical trials trying to experiment on the newest medicines. There is value in that. It is not based on an inductive experimental approach so it does not fit with most western scientists. The idea is it is like an instruction manual, not reverse engineering. The human body was not evolved from some random processes for us to reverse engineer, rather there is an inherent design and ayurveda explains it. People may not agree with those depths of it, but that is the origin and philosophy.

Nursie 14y ago
"The human body was not evolved from some random processes for us to reverse engineer, rather there is an inherent design and ayurveda explains it." Hooray, you've admitted you're peddling religion, and creationism at that. Well done.
dalke 14y ago
You ascribe an overly reductionist viewpoint on scientific thought. The scientific analysis would be to note that 'digestive fire' might not literally be a fire (just like 'I've got the runs' doesn't mean that I want to run). The corresponding experiment would be "if person X is treated with Y1 then does outcome Z occur with any statistical difference compared to treatment with Y2", where "Y2" can be "doing nothing." This has nothing to do with peering inside the body, only with outcomes. Once a difference has been identified, then it's reasonable to try to identify how 'digestive fire' might map to aspects of the body. There are well more than trillions of possible treatments, so as a strategy a scientist will use a model of how the body works in order to prioritize the investigation. For example, the presence of a single butterfly between 50 and 100 meters away certainly does not affect most people's digestion, and can be put very low on the list of parameters to explore. The only part of the "western model of logic" which applies is determining if the treatment had an beneficial effect. If you say that that doesn't apply, then you also throw out the possibility of determining if a treatment isn't actually effective.
- amalag 14y ago
  Yes there can be scientific determinations done on ayurvedic treatments and some are done. I should not through the baby with the bathwater as they say. Ayurveda is largely about lifestyle and diet. But varies from person to person. I am sure there will be more sophisticated tests done which can show efficacies of the results. A gross example is heartburn. if you have heartburn do you just take a pill for it or adjust your lifestyle and diet? I am sure there can be more sophisticated experiments done which can show efficacies of treatments. You are right that we cannot through out logical thinking.
  - 14y ago

Cthulhu_ 14y ago

> They are sleeping better w/o medication, they are not having anxiety attacks anymore, I could go on and on with her stories. I would definitely attribute sleeping and anxiety problems as mental issues; medication will try to mess with the body's (brain)chemistry to fix it, but, whilst not into alternative medicine, I do think non-chemical treatments - psychology, relaxation therapy, physical therapy - can help with that category of ailments.

Nursie 14y ago

I would add to my other response that your wife is probably a very caring and patient person, and by listening to people with trouble, taking time to understand them, and doing whatever it is she does with ayurveda, I have no doubt at all that she helps people. I wouldn't even rule out that ayurveda itself is helping them as well as just spending time being listened to and relaxing as a result. I don't know much about it and if there are dietary, meditative and exercise aspects then it's probably doing her patients a power of good! I just think the other poster's talk about poisons is rubbish :) My 'bullshit' comment was a sort of a logical construction. If some of the 'facts' upon which Ayurveda is predicated can be shown to be wrong, Ayurveda as a thought system is wrong (it produces incorrect results). Doesn't mean everything about it is wrong, just that it doesn't always make good predictions/proclamations. A bit like... I don't believe in Jesus but the whole 'do unto others' line is awesome :)