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There is a difference between knowing that animals think and feel, and caring that animals think and feel. I'm not trying to be funny here, I honestly don't ca

by jlgreco 14y ago

There is a difference between knowing that animals think and feel, and caring that animals think and feel. I'm not trying to be funny here, I honestly don't care. Eating things that taste good is more important to me. Different people have different values, go figure.

deleted 14y ago
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eurleif 14y ago
So if you found out people taste good?
- jlgreco 14y ago
  From the accounts I have read, I assume that they do. What is your point?
  - eurleif 14y ago
    My point is that I hope you don't find out where I live, because I don't want to be eaten. Also, that if you ever say it's wrong for anyone to murder anyone else, you'll be a hypocrite.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      Don't worry, I lack the desire to eat humans and would not do so even if I had the desire. Remember that thing I said about different people having different values? Well (although I suspect it may seem odd to you) I place more value in humans than I do in other animals. Kind of like how I place more value in family members than friends, and more value in friends than strangers. Although "because I want to" is sufficient justification for me to eat a non-human animal, it is not sufficient for me to eat a human. In my value system a strong necessity, not merely desire, would be required for me to do that. (Incidentally, the strength of the necessity required would be different for family, friends, and strangers...) None of this should be surprising to you, unless either you honestly thing that omnivores don't realize that animals can feel things, or honestly think that omnivores are all casual cannibals... both clearly absurd things to think.
      - eurleif 14y ago
        I hope some day, you realize moral relativism is bullshit.
        jlgreco 14y ago
        Who's standard of morality do you suggest I adopt? Yours?
        eurleif 14y ago
        I suggest you realize there is a standard of morality, then work on figuring out what it is.
        jlgreco 14y ago
        I see no pressing need. My value system is flawed.. from your perspective. However I, not being you, don't see it as flawed and therefore see no reason to revise it. Listen, I don't ask you to approve of what I eat (frankly, I don't give one damn about your approval). I expect that you will never agree with me. If you think resolving that is my intention, then you are dreadfully mistaken.
        eurleif 14y ago
        I understand that. But you should understand that, since you don't think morality exists, you can't call the guy who murders your family wrong. You can't call Hitler wrong. You can only say they're people who happen to have a different value system from you, which in absolute terms makes them no more right or wrong than anyone else.
        jlgreco 14y ago
        That strikes me as a tad hyperbolic, but what do I know? I guess if I eat meat I must literally be a Nazi! I don't recall saying that morality doesn't exist, though I am still intrigued by this standard for morality you mentioned earlier. Obviously this isn't something ISO dabbles in; who then shall I consult if I want to learn about it? Are there books? Or perhaps shamans on mountaintops I should consult?
igravious 14y ago
Reaction 1. Humans are animals: you honestly don't care that humans think and feel. Ergo, you exhibit psychopathic traits. Reaction 2. Unless of course you meant non-human animals. In which case why the arbitrary distinction? In this case you're not just saying that you have different values, you're saying that your morality is capricious and whimsical. Reaction 3. By all accounts humans and pigs taste very similar, Google 'long pig' for evidence. Pigs taste good to you, therefore humans taste good to you. If you make the claim (for whatever reason) that you are not interested in eating humans subsequent to the claim that eating things that taste good is more important to you then you'll have to excuse us while we bend our minds around the cognitive dissonance. Besides you are only able to make such a provocative claim because culturally and legally we live in societies where eating meat is okay - though few people take the radical stance that you do because most people have compassion for non-human animals regardless of whether or not the meat of the animal is pleasing to their taste buds for evolutionary reasons. Since you are being frank and honest, let me be frank and honest - I find your viewpoint repellent, I would go stronger than that, you disgust me. But, hey, they're just my values, go figure.
- akiselev 14y ago
  Since when is being a member of the same species an arbitrary distinction?
- jlgreco 14y ago
  > you're saying that your morality is capricious and whimsical. Sure, why not? I am okay with being capricious and whimsical if that means having different standards for members of my species. > Reaction 3. By all accounts humans and pigs taste very similar, Google 'long pig' for evidence. Pigs taste good to you, therefore humans taste good to you. As I have pointed out. > If you make the claim (for whatever reason) that you are not interested in eating humans subsequent to the claim that eating things that taste good is more important to you then you'll have to excuse us while we bend our minds around the cognitive dissonance. I believe I have covered this in "reaction 2". > though few people take the radical stance that you do This is not particularly important to me, but I suspect most omnivores do (although they are unable or unwilling to express their sentiments as bluntly/honestly.) > I find your viewpoint repellent, I would go stronger than that, you disgust me. But, hey, they're just my values, go figure. I expect that. That does not bother me at all. I'll go as far as to say that expecting another reaction from you would be rather unreasonable of me. However I do hope that you understand that the feeling is not mutual.

by jlgreco 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

eurleif 14y ago

So if you found out people taste good?

jlgreco 14y ago
From the accounts I have read, I assume that they do. What is your point?
- eurleif 14y ago
  My point is that I hope you don't find out where I live, because I don't want to be eaten. Also, that if you ever say it's wrong for anyone to murder anyone else, you'll be a hypocrite.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    Don't worry, I lack the desire to eat humans and would not do so even if I had the desire. Remember that thing I said about different people having different values? Well (although I suspect it may seem odd to you) I place more value in humans than I do in other animals. Kind of like how I place more value in family members than friends, and more value in friends than strangers. Although "because I want to" is sufficient justification for me to eat a non-human animal, it is not sufficient for me to eat a human. In my value system a strong necessity, not merely desire, would be required for me to do that. (Incidentally, the strength of the necessity required would be different for family, friends, and strangers...) None of this should be surprising to you, unless either you honestly thing that omnivores don't realize that animals can feel things, or honestly think that omnivores are all casual cannibals... both clearly absurd things to think.
    - eurleif 14y ago
      I hope some day, you realize moral relativism is bullshit.
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        Who's standard of morality do you suggest I adopt? Yours?
        eurleif 14y ago
        I suggest you realize there is a standard of morality, then work on figuring out what it is.
        jlgreco 14y ago
        I see no pressing need. My value system is flawed.. from your perspective. However I, not being you, don't see it as flawed and therefore see no reason to revise it. Listen, I don't ask you to approve of what I eat (frankly, I don't give one damn about your approval). I expect that you will never agree with me. If you think resolving that is my intention, then you are dreadfully mistaken.
        eurleif 14y ago
        I understand that. But you should understand that, since you don't think morality exists, you can't call the guy who murders your family wrong. You can't call Hitler wrong. You can only say they're people who happen to have a different value system from you, which in absolute terms makes them no more right or wrong than anyone else.
        jlgreco 14y ago
        That strikes me as a tad hyperbolic, but what do I know? I guess if I eat meat I must literally be a Nazi! I don't recall saying that morality doesn't exist, though I am still intrigued by this standard for morality you mentioned earlier. Obviously this isn't something ISO dabbles in; who then shall I consult if I want to learn about it? Are there books? Or perhaps shamans on mountaintops I should consult?

igravious 14y ago

Reaction 1. Humans are animals: you honestly don't care that humans think and feel. Ergo, you exhibit psychopathic traits. Reaction 2. Unless of course you meant non-human animals. In which case why the arbitrary distinction? In this case you're not just saying that you have different values, you're saying that your morality is capricious and whimsical. Reaction 3. By all accounts humans and pigs taste very similar, Google 'long pig' for evidence. Pigs taste good to you, therefore humans taste good to you. If you make the claim (for whatever reason) that you are not interested in eating humans subsequent to the claim that eating things that taste good is more important to you then you'll have to excuse us while we bend our minds around the cognitive dissonance. Besides you are only able to make such a provocative claim because culturally and legally we live in societies where eating meat is okay - though few people take the radical stance that you do because most people have compassion for non-human animals regardless of whether or not the meat of the animal is pleasing to their taste buds for evolutionary reasons. Since you are being frank and honest, let me be frank and honest - I find your viewpoint repellent, I would go stronger than that, you disgust me. But, hey, they're just my values, go figure.

akiselev 14y ago
Since when is being a member of the same species an arbitrary distinction?
jlgreco 14y ago
> you're saying that your morality is capricious and whimsical. Sure, why not? I am okay with being capricious and whimsical if that means having different standards for members of my species. > Reaction 3. By all accounts humans and pigs taste very similar, Google 'long pig' for evidence. Pigs taste good to you, therefore humans taste good to you. As I have pointed out. > If you make the claim (for whatever reason) that you are not interested in eating humans subsequent to the claim that eating things that taste good is more important to you then you'll have to excuse us while we bend our minds around the cognitive dissonance. I believe I have covered this in "reaction 2". > though few people take the radical stance that you do This is not particularly important to me, but I suspect most omnivores do (although they are unable or unwilling to express their sentiments as bluntly/honestly.) > I find your viewpoint repellent, I would go stronger than that, you disgust me. But, hey, they're just my values, go figure. I expect that. That does not bother me at all. I'll go as far as to say that expecting another reaction from you would be rather unreasonable of me. However I do hope that you understand that the feeling is not mutual.