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So if you eat meat you can't be against pit bull-fighting? That seems like a pretty bad philosophy to me. Extrapolate it further, we shouldn't, then, be more ap

by glesica 14y ago

So if you eat meat you can't be against pit bull-fighting? That seems like a pretty bad philosophy to me. Extrapolate it further, we shouldn't, then, be more appalled by a gruesome murder (of a human) than a gunshot to the back of the head. Since that is untrue for virtually everyone, you either have to claim that nearly every human on earth is a logically inconsistent dunce, or perhaps there is, in fact, a violence gradient of some sort.

aaron695 14y ago
> So if you eat meat you can't be against pit bull-fighting? Correct? Well you can but you'd be a bigot thinking you're beliefs are better than someone else's. >Extrapolate it further, we shouldn't, then, be more appalled by a gruesome murder (of a human) than a gunshot to the back of the head. Correct. Again a no brainer. There is however evidence that a person who commits a gruesome crime might be more likely to re-offend. This should be taken into account for sentencing/rehabilitation. But no, you should not be more 'appalled' > Since that is untrue for virtually everyone, you either have to claim that nearly every human on earth is a logically inconsistent dunce, or perhaps there is, in fact, a violence gradient of some sort. ??? Do I even need to answer that? 80% of India is Hindu. 80% of America is Christian. You think people aren't logically inconsistent?
- glesica 14y ago
  At some point you have to ask yourself if it's more likely that everyone else in the entire world is crazy, or that you might be mistaken. People are not shocked by horrible crimes because of the likelihood of re-offense. They are shocked by horrible crimes because there are things worse than simple murder, at least to most people. The idea that every murder is completely equal in every way is just plain silly. Torturing someone to death is worse than shooting them in the back of the head. Rape-and-murder is worse than murder. These are things that most people can see pretty clearly. Here's why: just ask yourself which you would prefer to have happen to you (assume that you won't be able to escape your fate no matter what happens). I'd take the bullet every single time, and there's a reason for that.
k88 14y ago
The issue is, is that you can't really kill anything humanely if you intend on consuming it. These animals aren't "put down" they are usually given a bolt gun to the head, hung by a leg and then have their throats slit so the blood drains out. Lets not forget that the animal is alive during this horrific process because their heart has to keep beating to pump out all the blood that they have. These animals experience this so that you can have meat that tastes better. Do you really feel good about that? Lets take the "bacon fad" for a ride down fallacy lane. So everyone loves their dog, right? Nobody in the US would ever dream of eating dog, its even used as a racial stigma against other cultures that have a history for eating them. However, "lesser animals" something that you would think isn't as intelligent as a dog it's ok to slaughter mercilessly for the sole purpose of mass consumption. But the fact of the matter is a pig is smarter than your pet dog. So think if it was your dog going through this, being born, raised in horrible conditions and then slaughtered. It bothers most people to think about that, so why does killing a pig not? Dont even get me started on the environmental issues that we all pretend to care about. Given that factory farming is a main source of pollution.....
- glesica 14y ago
  You seem to agree with me that there is a continuum of horrific treatment, a bolt to the head and hung up by a leg being worse than being "put down". I agree with that. I also agree that eating meat and claiming to be in favor of animal rights involves a certain amount of hypocrisy. I accept that, and I am still coming to terms with it personally (I have noted to friends, only half-jokingly, that I'm only about one PETA video away from becoming a vegetarian, and so I try to avoid them). That being said, and given that there is a continuum of mistreatment, I still think it is acceptable to eat meat and attempt to encourage more humane treatment of the animals. The hypocrisy is still there, but surely less cruelty is an improvement even if the treatment is still cruel. Of course at some point you will reach a minimum viable level of cruelty, at which point people will have some uncomfortable choices to make, but that's a good thing in my mind.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Blood can be removed completely painlessly from an unconscious creature. For example, human surgery is painless.

by glesica 14y ago

aaron695 14y ago

> So if you eat meat you can't be against pit bull-fighting? Correct? Well you can but you'd be a bigot thinking you're beliefs are better than someone else's. >Extrapolate it further, we shouldn't, then, be more appalled by a gruesome murder (of a human) than a gunshot to the back of the head. Correct. Again a no brainer. There is however evidence that a person who commits a gruesome crime might be more likely to re-offend. This should be taken into account for sentencing/rehabilitation. But no, you should not be more 'appalled' > Since that is untrue for virtually everyone, you either have to claim that nearly every human on earth is a logically inconsistent dunce, or perhaps there is, in fact, a violence gradient of some sort. ??? Do I even need to answer that? 80% of India is Hindu. 80% of America is Christian. You think people aren't logically inconsistent?

glesica 14y ago
At some point you have to ask yourself if it's more likely that everyone else in the entire world is crazy, or that you might be mistaken. People are not shocked by horrible crimes because of the likelihood of re-offense. They are shocked by horrible crimes because there are things worse than simple murder, at least to most people. The idea that every murder is completely equal in every way is just plain silly. Torturing someone to death is worse than shooting them in the back of the head. Rape-and-murder is worse than murder. These are things that most people can see pretty clearly. Here's why: just ask yourself which you would prefer to have happen to you (assume that you won't be able to escape your fate no matter what happens). I'd take the bullet every single time, and there's a reason for that.

k88 14y ago

The issue is, is that you can't really kill anything humanely if you intend on consuming it. These animals aren't "put down" they are usually given a bolt gun to the head, hung by a leg and then have their throats slit so the blood drains out. Lets not forget that the animal is alive during this horrific process because their heart has to keep beating to pump out all the blood that they have. These animals experience this so that you can have meat that tastes better. Do you really feel good about that? Lets take the "bacon fad" for a ride down fallacy lane. So everyone loves their dog, right? Nobody in the US would ever dream of eating dog, its even used as a racial stigma against other cultures that have a history for eating them. However, "lesser animals" something that you would think isn't as intelligent as a dog it's ok to slaughter mercilessly for the sole purpose of mass consumption. But the fact of the matter is a pig is smarter than your pet dog. So think if it was your dog going through this, being born, raised in horrible conditions and then slaughtered. It bothers most people to think about that, so why does killing a pig not? Dont even get me started on the environmental issues that we all pretend to care about. Given that factory farming is a main source of pollution.....

glesica 14y ago
You seem to agree with me that there is a continuum of horrific treatment, a bolt to the head and hung up by a leg being worse than being "put down". I agree with that. I also agree that eating meat and claiming to be in favor of animal rights involves a certain amount of hypocrisy. I accept that, and I am still coming to terms with it personally (I have noted to friends, only half-jokingly, that I'm only about one PETA video away from becoming a vegetarian, and so I try to avoid them). That being said, and given that there is a continuum of mistreatment, I still think it is acceptable to eat meat and attempt to encourage more humane treatment of the animals. The hypocrisy is still there, but surely less cruelty is an improvement even if the treatment is still cruel. Of course at some point you will reach a minimum viable level of cruelty, at which point people will have some uncomfortable choices to make, but that's a good thing in my mind.
Evbn 14y ago
Blood can be removed completely painlessly from an unconscious creature. For example, human surgery is painless.