4 ms·

Should VCs publicly criticize companies?

15 points by lleims 14y ago

rdl 14y ago
I'd probably go with no, at least in this case and how it was done. While dens can certainly take it, I don't see any way this was designed to "help" him, or really do anything but be a cheap and mean way to earn buzz for Keith. Keith managed to eke out a successful "Hail Mary Bebo-style outcome" from Slide, so there's some hypocrisy here, too. It's fair to criticize someone for doing something wrong when you could probably fix it (e.g. I think Refer.ly was doing it wrong in paying small amounts of money to contributors, and I told dmor this repeatedly and made comments to that effect; I cared because it seems like an awesome team who will do awesome other things). It's not really fair to criticize someone who can't fix things (e.g. telling a 2 year old that his painting sucks because the sky is not yellow), or where there's no real way to fix things (e.g. I know a company where the CTO suffered a skiing accident and major TBI, telling the CEO that they are probably fucked is not so helpful).
- samstave 14y ago
  Couple thoughts; First, I can't recall myself ever seeing PG admonish or otherwise belittle in any way any YC alum company. Or any others for that matter (not that i stalk comments from PG - I have just never seen anything come out as negative) In fact, when YC invested in iCracked, and I personally said that I was confused in this and thought it was weird (among other things) - PG defended their belief in iCracked... I think that PG/YC does an amazing job of participating in the discussion about the startup scene without doing any of the following: over-hype, flame wars, arrogance, [insert-adjective] I think that Keith should look back on his recent leaving of Square and how the startup community supported him and have a little more grace. He may have started that tweet-flame with a joke - but he dug a-hole for himself as well. Its hard to be sympathetic to him when, in just a few short weeks after his personal calamity, where many supported him, he just comes out looking like a dick. VCs should be truthful, but should refrain from posting to the internet whilst drunk.
spindritf 14y ago
> @hunterwalk same number of real users. was a funny line. While the whole "haters gonna hate" response from @dens made it sound like a hip-hop feud, the original exchange was much better: >>>> Wow, who knew 40,000 developers use the @foursquare API... >>> @hunterwalk same number of real users. >> @P2chairman eh, VC has softened @rabois. Prev he would have predicted an actual date of failure ;-) > @hunterwalk true. Either way, this article is one step above gossip. A tiny step at that.
yesimahuman 14y ago
Well at least it's easy to see someone's personality when they do this. Gives you more data if you want to seek these VCs out.
saosebastiao 14y ago
I don't see why not. There is no fiduciary duty or ethical standard to not opine on the industry in which you play. FourSquare can likewise bite back and criticize Keith's more dubious investments. Either can choose to do so at their own peril. Sometimes words bite, and sometimes they bite back.
staunch 14y ago
As far as I know, Keith Rabois, although he calls himself an entrepreneur, has never actually founded a startup. Doing so tends to make people a lot less likely to mock other founders. It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
girvo 14y ago
God Pandodaily is gossipy trash. In terms of the actual 'argument', Keith came across as a dick, but hey, it's his prerogative. I'm sure Dennis can handle it.
pla3rhat3r 14y ago
So you have money to invest in a startup so that gives you the right to criticize others? I guess I'm missing the connection here. Companies are going to make mistakes. Does it mean it gives anyone the right to criticize them? The answer is yes. We are consumers and in the digital age we are also critics who have instant access and require instant gratification. Yelp proved that. It just means that the quality of the content is less than honest and usually without integrity. But these days integrity seems to be subjective.
aviswanathan 14y ago
I've never followed Keith much, but it's a bit surprising to see him come out so critically following his awkward departure from Square. Undoubtedly a great businessman (PayPal, etc.), but I think this was totally uncalled for, especially in public context. What really irks me is that he keeps it going and defends it. I've never been a huge fan of Foursquare, but as a founder, I know my limits in criticizing others' ventures and ideas. My company is my baby. Publicly humiliating someone's hard work is something I think most founders would definitely take personally, so I can relate to Dennis' reaction. This definitely got way more publicity than was necessary, but I think it brings up an interesting reference point in providing feedback and criticism on ideas/businesses.
- trotsky 14y ago
  What really irks me is that he keeps it going and defends it. I agree. It's one thing to have an opinion, but once it's clear that people on twitter disagree with you it's just unforgivable if you don't immediately abandon it.
lquist 14y ago
Is it just me or does everyone involved in a twitter argument ever look like a moron?

15 points by lleims 14y ago

rdl 14y ago

I'd probably go with no, at least in this case and how it was done. While dens can certainly take it, I don't see any way this was designed to "help" him, or really do anything but be a cheap and mean way to earn buzz for Keith. Keith managed to eke out a successful "Hail Mary Bebo-style outcome" from Slide, so there's some hypocrisy here, too. It's fair to criticize someone for doing something wrong when you could probably fix it (e.g. I think Refer.ly was doing it wrong in paying small amounts of money to contributors, and I told dmor this repeatedly and made comments to that effect; I cared because it seems like an awesome team who will do awesome other things). It's not really fair to criticize someone who can't fix things (e.g. telling a 2 year old that his painting sucks because the sky is not yellow), or where there's no real way to fix things (e.g. I know a company where the CTO suffered a skiing accident and major TBI, telling the CEO that they are probably fucked is not so helpful).

samstave 14y ago
Couple thoughts; First, I can't recall myself ever seeing PG admonish or otherwise belittle in any way any YC alum company. Or any others for that matter (not that i stalk comments from PG - I have just never seen anything come out as negative) In fact, when YC invested in iCracked, and I personally said that I was confused in this and thought it was weird (among other things) - PG defended their belief in iCracked... I think that PG/YC does an amazing job of participating in the discussion about the startup scene without doing any of the following: over-hype, flame wars, arrogance, [insert-adjective] I think that Keith should look back on his recent leaving of Square and how the startup community supported him and have a little more grace. He may have started that tweet-flame with a joke - but he dug a-hole for himself as well. Its hard to be sympathetic to him when, in just a few short weeks after his personal calamity, where many supported him, he just comes out looking like a dick. VCs should be truthful, but should refrain from posting to the internet whilst drunk.

spindritf 14y ago

> @hunterwalk same number of real users. was a funny line. While the whole "haters gonna hate" response from @dens made it sound like a hip-hop feud, the original exchange was much better: >>>> Wow, who knew 40,000 developers use the @foursquare API... >>> @hunterwalk same number of real users. >> @P2chairman eh, VC has softened @rabois. Prev he would have predicted an actual date of failure ;-) > @hunterwalk true. Either way, this article is one step above gossip. A tiny step at that.

yesimahuman 14y ago

Well at least it's easy to see someone's personality when they do this. Gives you more data if you want to seek these VCs out.

saosebastiao 14y ago

I don't see why not. There is no fiduciary duty or ethical standard to not opine on the industry in which you play. FourSquare can likewise bite back and criticize Keith's more dubious investments. Either can choose to do so at their own peril. Sometimes words bite, and sometimes they bite back.

staunch 14y ago

As far as I know, Keith Rabois, although he calls himself an entrepreneur, has never actually founded a startup. Doing so tends to make people a lot less likely to mock other founders. It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

girvo 14y ago

God Pandodaily is gossipy trash. In terms of the actual 'argument', Keith came across as a dick, but hey, it's his prerogative. I'm sure Dennis can handle it.

pla3rhat3r 14y ago

So you have money to invest in a startup so that gives you the right to criticize others? I guess I'm missing the connection here. Companies are going to make mistakes. Does it mean it gives anyone the right to criticize them? The answer is yes. We are consumers and in the digital age we are also critics who have instant access and require instant gratification. Yelp proved that. It just means that the quality of the content is less than honest and usually without integrity. But these days integrity seems to be subjective.

aviswanathan 14y ago

I've never followed Keith much, but it's a bit surprising to see him come out so critically following his awkward departure from Square. Undoubtedly a great businessman (PayPal, etc.), but I think this was totally uncalled for, especially in public context. What really irks me is that he keeps it going and defends it. I've never been a huge fan of Foursquare, but as a founder, I know my limits in criticizing others' ventures and ideas. My company is my baby. Publicly humiliating someone's hard work is something I think most founders would definitely take personally, so I can relate to Dennis' reaction. This definitely got way more publicity than was necessary, but I think it brings up an interesting reference point in providing feedback and criticism on ideas/businesses.

trotsky 14y ago
What really irks me is that he keeps it going and defends it. I agree. It's one thing to have an opinion, but once it's clear that people on twitter disagree with you it's just unforgivable if you don't immediately abandon it.

lquist 14y ago

Is it just me or does everyone involved in a twitter argument ever look like a moron?