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I want to give you hope but to be blunt, if your 30 an not an established coder your not going to be. I started coding when I was 11 (dumb stuff of course, but

I want to give you hope but to be blunt, if your 30 an not an established coder your not going to be. I started coding when I was 11 (dumb stuff of course, but actual coding), went to university and got a CS degree, now I'm in my late 30s and I have been coding for a good ~25 years, ~12 professionally (as in day job). You have to compete with people like me, people who enjoy coding, people who go to work then come home to work on their own stuff. It's just not going to happen. Granted you can get a more "noobish" job BUT your going to have to compete with people in their early twenties who will work longer hours, less money and complain less. And these are people that want this as a career and are willing to learn/endure considerbaly more bullshit. I'm not saying don't go for it, but it's going to be a hard road. And if you fail, which is likely, your going to be 40 with no "life track" as you put it. Think long and hard. Don't let the non-programmers here who are "social-hackers" and every unbelievably stupid variation of the now-ruined word "hacker" tell you that you can do it. Seriously, your against the odds here, not impossible, good ideas are VERY important, but if you cannot do them yourself don't bother.

indymike 14y ago
I've been coding since age 14. I got my first real programming job at age 16 writing medical software. Sure, I wasn't as good as people twice my age... but $20/hour at age 16 in 1986 wasn't bad. You know what? I quit being amazed that other people could learn to code a long time ago. I've seen children, old people, blind people, and even almost illiterate people learn to code. There was always someone telling them it was a waste of time or they didn't have the aptitude because if they did, they already would be able to program. To be a coder, all it takes is writing code that works (what works at ABC Widget Co might be different than Mountain View Startup Co). When I was asked to manage, I learned that less experienced coders are often more productive than more older, more experienced ones. I also learned that some of the best and most productive of all came in a 8 and left at 4:30 and flat out refused to work stupid hours. They had lives and they learned to work smarter and more intensely than others so they could go home to whatever it was they really loved to do. If someone wants to be a programmer when they grow up, even if they are 40 or 50 when they start the journey... encourage them. As for qisine... I wish him well on his journey. Programming has been good to me.
- omfgitsbacon 14y ago
  Your advice is rainbows, ponies and nice and all but he's not asking "should I start programming", hes asking more along the lines of "should I start a career in programming". Two completely different paths, getting into this profession or any technical profession, where you just can't do it on a whim is going to be a challenge at any age. I've been a senior developer for a long time, and I keep reading this bullshit on HN about "hey, no coding skills, start a internet startup!" and "I'm in marketing and I started a wordpress blog about hacking and now I'm an entrepreneur". You want to get into coding, listen to the real coders, PERIOD.
omfgitsbacon 14y ago
I try to give honest advice from something I know a lot about and sure enough, dead bottom. Like the old saying goes, truth hurts the most. I'm done with HN, I'm done arguing with idiots who think hacking means copy&pasting code into wordpress, I'm mad my profession has been overrun with hipster, opinionated douches. It took a while, but I get it now, I'm through commenting on here...
HiroProtaganist 14y ago
Why does he have to compete with you? What if his goal isn't to work a 9-5, making a middling salary like most programmers? (hint: he never stated what his actual goals are). You do not need to be a smug programmer to make something that turns into a multi-million dollar business.
stopcyring 14y ago
Almost 200 bs comments and your's the only reasonable one. Nice ratio. But it always was like this here in HN. People engulf themselves with all this media hype of success and the 'i am a precious-jewel that just needs to try to be successful' attitude they actually start to believe it. Only later to be mind blown when reality sinks in.
pjbrunet 14y ago
Exactly. This guy has no chance!
- sidcool 14y ago
  Really? That makes me sad.
Humjob 14y ago
With all due respect, you are speaking like an employee, and the OP explicitly stated that his intention is to be a founder. It's undoubtedly true that coding skills can matter in the early days, especially if you're a solo founder and don't have a technical partner, but if you're a founder and your company has any significance then your abilities to manage others, stay motivated, create detailed and inspired yet feasible product specifications, pivot when necessary to meet market demand, effectively & cheaply acquire customers, create distribution channels, market your company, etc. are vastly more important than your ability to code. The employees do the bulk of the coding.
ebiggs 14y ago
Not only is this irrelevant to a hacker-entrepreneur it's also somewhat irrelevant to a simple programming career. The sheer dearth of good programming talent makes it a fairly easy field to break into if you're highly motivated. You will undoubtedly be a lot better after 10-20 years of experience than you will just starting, but I've seen countless examples of kids who are more capable and better resources than some more dispassionate experienced programmers. It's such a fast moving field, and so diverse - that the opportunities for green talent are massive... far better than most other technical fields.

indymike 14y ago

I've been coding since age 14. I got my first real programming job at age 16 writing medical software. Sure, I wasn't as good as people twice my age... but $20/hour at age 16 in 1986 wasn't bad. You know what? I quit being amazed that other people could learn to code a long time ago. I've seen children, old people, blind people, and even almost illiterate people learn to code. There was always someone telling them it was a waste of time or they didn't have the aptitude because if they did, they already would be able to program. To be a coder, all it takes is writing code that works (what works at ABC Widget Co might be different than Mountain View Startup Co). When I was asked to manage, I learned that less experienced coders are often more productive than more older, more experienced ones. I also learned that some of the best and most productive of all came in a 8 and left at 4:30 and flat out refused to work stupid hours. They had lives and they learned to work smarter and more intensely than others so they could go home to whatever it was they really loved to do. If someone wants to be a programmer when they grow up, even if they are 40 or 50 when they start the journey... encourage them. As for qisine... I wish him well on his journey. Programming has been good to me.

omfgitsbacon 14y ago
Your advice is rainbows, ponies and nice and all but he's not asking "should I start programming", hes asking more along the lines of "should I start a career in programming". Two completely different paths, getting into this profession or any technical profession, where you just can't do it on a whim is going to be a challenge at any age. I've been a senior developer for a long time, and I keep reading this bullshit on HN about "hey, no coding skills, start a internet startup!" and "I'm in marketing and I started a wordpress blog about hacking and now I'm an entrepreneur". You want to get into coding, listen to the real coders, PERIOD.

omfgitsbacon 14y ago

I try to give honest advice from something I know a lot about and sure enough, dead bottom. Like the old saying goes, truth hurts the most. I'm done with HN, I'm done arguing with idiots who think hacking means copy&pasting code into wordpress, I'm mad my profession has been overrun with hipster, opinionated douches. It took a while, but I get it now, I'm through commenting on here...

HiroProtaganist 14y ago

Why does he have to compete with you? What if his goal isn't to work a 9-5, making a middling salary like most programmers? (hint: he never stated what his actual goals are). You do not need to be a smug programmer to make something that turns into a multi-million dollar business.

stopcyring 14y ago

Almost 200 bs comments and your's the only reasonable one. Nice ratio. But it always was like this here in HN. People engulf themselves with all this media hype of success and the 'i am a precious-jewel that just needs to try to be successful' attitude they actually start to believe it. Only later to be mind blown when reality sinks in.

pjbrunet 14y ago

Exactly. This guy has no chance!

sidcool 14y ago
Really? That makes me sad.

Humjob 14y ago

With all due respect, you are speaking like an employee, and the OP explicitly stated that his intention is to be a founder. It's undoubtedly true that coding skills can matter in the early days, especially if you're a solo founder and don't have a technical partner, but if you're a founder and your company has any significance then your abilities to manage others, stay motivated, create detailed and inspired yet feasible product specifications, pivot when necessary to meet market demand, effectively & cheaply acquire customers, create distribution channels, market your company, etc. are vastly more important than your ability to code. The employees do the bulk of the coding.

ebiggs 14y ago

Not only is this irrelevant to a hacker-entrepreneur it's also somewhat irrelevant to a simple programming career. The sheer dearth of good programming talent makes it a fairly easy field to break into if you're highly motivated. You will undoubtedly be a lot better after 10-20 years of experience than you will just starting, but I've seen countless examples of kids who are more capable and better resources than some more dispassionate experienced programmers. It's such a fast moving field, and so diverse - that the opportunities for green talent are massive... far better than most other technical fields.