4 ms·

This Guy Took Out a Gigantic Loan to Destroy the Financial System

19 points by Lightning 14y ago

ComputerGuru 14y ago
Can we not submit mobile links? http://www.vice.com/read/spains-robin-hood-prefers http://www.vice.com/read/spains-robin-hood-prefers
Shihan 14y ago
Wow, what a genius. Lending money from banks and not paying it back. I think nobody ever had this wicked master mind plan. What's his point again? That stealing is OK when you want to promote your crazy, utopian socialist world view?
- anonymoushn 14y ago
  Failing to repay a loan is not theft. Generally the loan contract will provide for what will happen if the money is repaid and what will happen if the money is not repaid, and it is entirely up to the borrower to determine which happens.
  - sveiss 14y ago
    Not theft, but entering into a loan contract with no intention of paying it back may be fraud.
  - mikeash 14y ago
    However, assuming he didn't reveal his plan to avoid repayment, it is fraud.
  - monochromatic 14y ago
    He may well have committed fraud in what he told the banks though.
smoyer 14y ago
"his latest project: the creation of a completely autonomous town" In twenty years, his town will have an organized government that he won't like, and some of the people in the town will be giving "tasks" to others. And at that point he still won't understand that some people like the regularity and (perceived) safety that "the man" provides.
- jack9 14y ago
  I think he means a WSDE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guSdjsctrUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guSdjsctrUQ There are plenty of outlets for describing this (Wolff's initial idealistic assertions are sometimes fantastical, but his later analysis is pretty spot on). This psuedo-marxist commune idea has taken hold in the north of Spain (100k people +) and in smaller parts of the US already.
astangl 14y ago
I don't see how borrowing (stealing?) 500K euro from many institutions is going to do anything other than get himself some publicity and then trial followed by jail time. Capitalism has a lot of problems, but I don't see how anarchists offer better practical solutions. I lump libertarians (of which I once considered myself) into the same group.
dhughes 14y ago
> spent the rest on Crisi, a free newspaper Apple computers are expensive. It's funny how people who benefit from a capitalist system have the luxury of condemning it. Meanwhile many people in the world who are starving and homeless would trade places with this guy in a heartbeat.
NateDad 14y ago
$642k is considered gigantic now? That's not that much bigger than my mortgage...
- stanmancan 14y ago
  borrowed €492,000 ($642,306) from 39 different financial entities $25 million total Edit: However, $25,000,000 isn't very much over all, especially when your goal is to "destroy the financial system". Especially when it's only $640K from each bank.
  - uvdiv 14y ago
    I parse that as €492,000 in total. Another source supports this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/19/spain http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/19/spain
    - stanmancan 14y ago
      Fair enough. I guess the style in which that sentence was written leaves something to be desired. I'm going to have to agree with you guys on this one, especially since I imagine it would be rather difficult to get over $640K from 39 different financial institutions. Averaging $16K loans seems significantly more feasible.
tlrobinson 14y ago
When I see "gigantic loan" to "destroy the financial system" I think "billions of dollars", not single-mortgage-sized loans.
uvdiv 14y ago
Totalitarian nutcase. What we need are very deep changes in human relationships—trust between people. The integral revolution isn't about changing the economic system, it's about changing everything, changing the human being. We’re talking about change in every aspect of life. [...] The big issue here is that the concept of political parties contradicts the concept of an assembly. The assembly is an open process run through consensus. The political party system, on the other hand, is based on confrontation.
- jabiko 14y ago
  > What we need […] trust between people. The funny thing is that the bank trusted him by lending him money. He has taken advantage of this trust and betrayed the bank.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
Sigh. There is no 'them' there is only 'us'

19 points by Lightning 14y ago

Can we not submit mobile links? http://www.vice.com/read/spains-robin-hood-prefers http://www.vice.com/read/spains-robin-hood-prefers

Shihan 14y ago

Wow, what a genius. Lending money from banks and not paying it back. I think nobody ever had this wicked master mind plan. What's his point again? That stealing is OK when you want to promote your crazy, utopian socialist world view?

anonymoushn 14y ago
Failing to repay a loan is not theft. Generally the loan contract will provide for what will happen if the money is repaid and what will happen if the money is not repaid, and it is entirely up to the borrower to determine which happens.
- sveiss 14y ago
  Not theft, but entering into a loan contract with no intention of paying it back may be fraud.
- mikeash 14y ago
  However, assuming he didn't reveal his plan to avoid repayment, it is fraud.
- monochromatic 14y ago
  He may well have committed fraud in what he told the banks though.

smoyer 14y ago

"his latest project: the creation of a completely autonomous town" In twenty years, his town will have an organized government that he won't like, and some of the people in the town will be giving "tasks" to others. And at that point he still won't understand that some people like the regularity and (perceived) safety that "the man" provides.

jack9 14y ago
I think he means a WSDE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guSdjsctrUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guSdjsctrUQ There are plenty of outlets for describing this (Wolff's initial idealistic assertions are sometimes fantastical, but his later analysis is pretty spot on). This psuedo-marxist commune idea has taken hold in the north of Spain (100k people +) and in smaller parts of the US already.

astangl 14y ago

I don't see how borrowing (stealing?) 500K euro from many institutions is going to do anything other than get himself some publicity and then trial followed by jail time. Capitalism has a lot of problems, but I don't see how anarchists offer better practical solutions. I lump libertarians (of which I once considered myself) into the same group.

dhughes 14y ago

> spent the rest on Crisi, a free newspaper Apple computers are expensive. It's funny how people who benefit from a capitalist system have the luxury of condemning it. Meanwhile many people in the world who are starving and homeless would trade places with this guy in a heartbeat.

NateDad 14y ago

$642k is considered gigantic now? That's not that much bigger than my mortgage...

stanmancan 14y ago
borrowed €492,000 ($642,306) from 39 different financial entities $25 million total Edit: However, $25,000,000 isn't very much over all, especially when your goal is to "destroy the financial system". Especially when it's only $640K from each bank.
- uvdiv 14y ago
  I parse that as €492,000 in total. Another source supports this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/19/spain http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/19/spain
  - stanmancan 14y ago
    Fair enough. I guess the style in which that sentence was written leaves something to be desired. I'm going to have to agree with you guys on this one, especially since I imagine it would be rather difficult to get over $640K from 39 different financial institutions. Averaging $16K loans seems significantly more feasible.

tlrobinson 14y ago

When I see "gigantic loan" to "destroy the financial system" I think "billions of dollars", not single-mortgage-sized loans.

uvdiv 14y ago

Totalitarian nutcase. What we need are very deep changes in human relationships—trust between people. The integral revolution isn't about changing the economic system, it's about changing everything, changing the human being. We’re talking about change in every aspect of life. [...] The big issue here is that the concept of political parties contradicts the concept of an assembly. The assembly is an open process run through consensus. The political party system, on the other hand, is based on confrontation.

jabiko 14y ago
> What we need […] trust between people. The funny thing is that the bank trusted him by lending him money. He has taken advantage of this trust and betrayed the bank.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

Sigh. There is no 'them' there is only 'us'