4 ms·

>but it's because we can't buy computers (anymore) without operating system. So were they buying computers from OEMs like Lenovo and Dell, installing Linux and

>but it's because we can't buy computers (anymore) without operating system. So were they buying computers from OEMs like Lenovo and Dell, installing Linux and then selling them? Why not assemble desktops from components? I believe the ODMs will sell laptops without OSes to distributors if the order is large enough. >However with Windows 8 all doors are being closed permanently and we see no way to open these. What has this to do with Windows 8 at all?

lumberjack 14y ago
That's exactly what I was thinking. Theirs' seems like an unusual approach yet one that has it's advantages. I guess they would buy in bulk and leverage that so that they could get special preference regarding the OS? And they avoid having to build their own brand reputation, too. They can still buy from an ODM like Clevo and sell them under their own branding.
justincormack 14y ago
Windows 8 = UEFI Secure Boot. eg see https://lwn.net/Articles/503803/ https://lwn.net/Articles/503803/ it is going to be much more difficult to run Linux. Because of the dominance of Windows it may be harder to get motherboards without this, so there will be much less choice and you will need more technical knowledge to sell Linux stuff, eg maybe flash your own firmware.
- cooldeal 14y ago
  All Windows 8 certified machines need the Secure Boot to be able to be turned off. I seriously doubt turning off an option in the BIOS/UEFI setup screen is going to hobble them. http://www.top-password.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/toshiba-secure-boot.jpg http://www.top-password.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/... > you will need more technical knowledge to sell Linux stuff, I would really really hope that a company installing and configuring Linux would have the technical chops to turn off a bios setting.
  - sp332 14y ago
    All Windows 8 certified machines This only applies to x86 platforms. ARM-based "Windows RT" systems are locked down. I think you're right about this case but I think it's important to remember that some EFI secure boot systems can't be unlocked.
    - cooldeal 14y ago
      Oh, please. A Windows RT system is not a Windows 8 certified machine, not even close, the capabilities are vastly different. Might as well point out that the "ARM-Based iOS systems" come with a locked bootloader.
    - superuser2 14y ago
      Why would you want to buy an ARM based Linux machine?
      - sp332 14y ago
        The MS Surface is some pretty sweet hardware.
    - bitwize 14y ago
      ARM-based Windows RT systems are also lead balloons in terms of sales. I think that the market will self-correct here, as no one wants ReTarded Windows, or a machine that can only run the same.
      - tracker1 14y ago
        I really wouldn't mind an RT based ARM system, if it were more price competitive (to even low-end x86 systems, and high end android), and wasn't using a locked boot loader. As it stands, no sale.
    - glesica 14y ago
      Irrelevant unless the company in question was selling ARM-based systems (which is impossible since they refer to Windows 8 as something that has changed in their business model, and previous versions of Windows did not support ARM. So they must have been selling x86 machines.
pudquick 14y ago
> What has this to do with Windows 8 at all? I think he really meant Windows RT. My guess is that, to either increase their margins on sales or to appeal to the "budget PC" consumer, they were attempting to get one or more of the various flavors of new ARM-based Windows RT offerings, which tend to come with UEFI secure boot and are more difficult (but not impossible) to get Linux on.
- cooldeal 14y ago
  That makes even less sense. Why blame a platform that is barely selling? You might as well blame the iPad for not making it easy to install Linux. Or just grab a Nexus Tab 10 or Asus Transformer or even a ARM Chromebook, slap their version of Linux or whatever on it and sell it. How is that different from trying to get Linux on a Windows RT machine?
  - 18pfsmt 14y ago
    I really don't care about this issue at all, but if I have to read any more threads with you relentlessly defending Windows, you have to disclose your employer. Looking at your comment history, you are obsessed, and I don't think it's fair. Same goes for recoiledsnake. To me, a vaguely interested reader, you all come off as zealots.
    - mkr-hn 14y ago
      Yes, that's such an unusual phenomenon at HN. Microsoft is the first company to bring out vocal supporters in this place.
      - 18pfsmt 14y ago
        Are you trying to make some vague point through sarcastic remarks? If so, I find it completely unhelpful and unconstructve. I am pretty sure internet snark is long-since outgrown by most of HN. Feel free to add something of substance.
        14y ago
zanny 14y ago
> Why not assemble desktops from components? The actual labor of unboxing consumer parts and putting them together would double the cost of the machine after you run sufficient testing on the system akin to what a factory will put it through. Even if you got someone to sit around and just screw together PC parts, you are looking at an hour a machine (if you want to verify it posts, then stick it in a corner running prime95 and memtest to make sure the parts check out) and that is prohibitively more expensive than a Windows license.

lumberjack 14y ago

That's exactly what I was thinking. Theirs' seems like an unusual approach yet one that has it's advantages. I guess they would buy in bulk and leverage that so that they could get special preference regarding the OS? And they avoid having to build their own brand reputation, too. They can still buy from an ODM like Clevo and sell them under their own branding.

justincormack 14y ago

Windows 8 = UEFI Secure Boot. eg see https://lwn.net/Articles/503803/ https://lwn.net/Articles/503803/ it is going to be much more difficult to run Linux. Because of the dominance of Windows it may be harder to get motherboards without this, so there will be much less choice and you will need more technical knowledge to sell Linux stuff, eg maybe flash your own firmware.

cooldeal 14y ago
All Windows 8 certified machines need the Secure Boot to be able to be turned off. I seriously doubt turning off an option in the BIOS/UEFI setup screen is going to hobble them. http://www.top-password.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/toshiba-secure-boot.jpg http://www.top-password.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/... > you will need more technical knowledge to sell Linux stuff, I would really really hope that a company installing and configuring Linux would have the technical chops to turn off a bios setting.
- sp332 14y ago
  All Windows 8 certified machines This only applies to x86 platforms. ARM-based "Windows RT" systems are locked down. I think you're right about this case but I think it's important to remember that some EFI secure boot systems can't be unlocked.
  - cooldeal 14y ago
    Oh, please. A Windows RT system is not a Windows 8 certified machine, not even close, the capabilities are vastly different. Might as well point out that the "ARM-Based iOS systems" come with a locked bootloader.
  - superuser2 14y ago
    Why would you want to buy an ARM based Linux machine?
    - sp332 14y ago
      The MS Surface is some pretty sweet hardware.
  - bitwize 14y ago
    ARM-based Windows RT systems are also lead balloons in terms of sales. I think that the market will self-correct here, as no one wants ReTarded Windows, or a machine that can only run the same.
    - tracker1 14y ago
      I really wouldn't mind an RT based ARM system, if it were more price competitive (to even low-end x86 systems, and high end android), and wasn't using a locked boot loader. As it stands, no sale.
  - glesica 14y ago
    Irrelevant unless the company in question was selling ARM-based systems (which is impossible since they refer to Windows 8 as something that has changed in their business model, and previous versions of Windows did not support ARM. So they must have been selling x86 machines.

pudquick 14y ago

> What has this to do with Windows 8 at all? I think he really meant Windows RT. My guess is that, to either increase their margins on sales or to appeal to the "budget PC" consumer, they were attempting to get one or more of the various flavors of new ARM-based Windows RT offerings, which tend to come with UEFI secure boot and are more difficult (but not impossible) to get Linux on.

cooldeal 14y ago
That makes even less sense. Why blame a platform that is barely selling? You might as well blame the iPad for not making it easy to install Linux. Or just grab a Nexus Tab 10 or Asus Transformer or even a ARM Chromebook, slap their version of Linux or whatever on it and sell it. How is that different from trying to get Linux on a Windows RT machine?
- 18pfsmt 14y ago
  I really don't care about this issue at all, but if I have to read any more threads with you relentlessly defending Windows, you have to disclose your employer. Looking at your comment history, you are obsessed, and I don't think it's fair. Same goes for recoiledsnake. To me, a vaguely interested reader, you all come off as zealots.
  - mkr-hn 14y ago
    Yes, that's such an unusual phenomenon at HN. Microsoft is the first company to bring out vocal supporters in this place.
    - 18pfsmt 14y ago
      Are you trying to make some vague point through sarcastic remarks? If so, I find it completely unhelpful and unconstructve. I am pretty sure internet snark is long-since outgrown by most of HN. Feel free to add something of substance.
      - 14y ago

zanny 14y ago

> Why not assemble desktops from components? The actual labor of unboxing consumer parts and putting them together would double the cost of the machine after you run sufficient testing on the system akin to what a factory will put it through. Even if you got someone to sit around and just screw together PC parts, you are looking at an hour a machine (if you want to verify it posts, then stick it in a corner running prime95 and memtest to make sure the parts check out) and that is prohibitively more expensive than a Windows license.