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Where's the default? I don't read anywhere that Cyprus is defaulting in part of its debt. EDIT: Why the downvote? Please explain what percentage of the debt

by gasull 14y ago

Where's the default? I don't read anywhere that Cyprus is defaulting in part of its debt. EDIT: Why the downvote? Please explain what percentage of the debt is being defaulted, that is, what is the percentage of Cyprus debt that isn't going to be paid at all?

coldtea 14y ago
Having the dept repaid by stealing deposited money, is close enough to default in my books. Especially if that only repays a tiny amount. Same thing with Greece. The dept is always the same as it was, and the default is only avoided by getting a quick additional loan every X months. Which is essentially a default in "life support".
- gasull 14y ago
  That's not a default, it's a new loan. Answer this question: What percentage of Cyprus debt has been defaulted? That is, what percentage isn't going to be paid at all?
  - coldtea 14y ago
    >That's not a default, it's a new loan. A new loan that can never be repaid, and its only purpose is to prevent an immediate default, it just as good as a default in my books. Maybe not from the point of view of the creditors (they will get some of their money back), but still having very similar consequences to the debtors: difficulty in loaning new money, financial destruction, a take-over-of-control by the creditors' intermediaries and the liquifying any valuable state assets. It already started with indiscriminately stealing 6% from the bank account holders and can only go downhill. >That is, what percentage isn't going to be paid at all? Lots of it. Following the same process as with Greece et al, there is definitely going to be a "haircut".
    - gasull 14y ago
      > A new loan that can never be repaid, and its only purpose is to prevent an immediate default, it just as good as a default in my books. That's quite a stretch of the term "default". A default is when a debtor declares that he can't pay and therefore he won't pay. Getting into a new loan doesn't qualify as default. > Maybe not from the point of view of the creditors (they will get some of their money back), but still having very similar consequences to the debtors: difficulty in loaning new money, financial destruction, a take-over-of-control by the creditors' intermediaries and the liquifying any valuable state assets. With a real default, there would be less financial destruction. At least the bleed of paying the loans would stop. > It already started with indiscriminately stealing 6% from the bank account holders and can only go downhill. Agreed. > > That is, what percentage isn't going to be paid at all? > Lots of it. Following the same process as with Greece et al, there is definitely going to be a "haircut". Then it will be a (partial) default on the new loans, but it isn't yet.
Evbn 14y ago
Banks are defaulting on 10% of their obligations to accountholders. Money went in, didn't come out.

by gasull 14y ago

coldtea 14y ago

Having the dept repaid by stealing deposited money, is close enough to default in my books. Especially if that only repays a tiny amount. Same thing with Greece. The dept is always the same as it was, and the default is only avoided by getting a quick additional loan every X months. Which is essentially a default in "life support".

gasull 14y ago
That's not a default, it's a new loan. Answer this question: What percentage of Cyprus debt has been defaulted? That is, what percentage isn't going to be paid at all?
- coldtea 14y ago
  >That's not a default, it's a new loan. A new loan that can never be repaid, and its only purpose is to prevent an immediate default, it just as good as a default in my books. Maybe not from the point of view of the creditors (they will get some of their money back), but still having very similar consequences to the debtors: difficulty in loaning new money, financial destruction, a take-over-of-control by the creditors' intermediaries and the liquifying any valuable state assets. It already started with indiscriminately stealing 6% from the bank account holders and can only go downhill. >That is, what percentage isn't going to be paid at all? Lots of it. Following the same process as with Greece et al, there is definitely going to be a "haircut".
  - gasull 14y ago
    > A new loan that can never be repaid, and its only purpose is to prevent an immediate default, it just as good as a default in my books. That's quite a stretch of the term "default". A default is when a debtor declares that he can't pay and therefore he won't pay. Getting into a new loan doesn't qualify as default. > Maybe not from the point of view of the creditors (they will get some of their money back), but still having very similar consequences to the debtors: difficulty in loaning new money, financial destruction, a take-over-of-control by the creditors' intermediaries and the liquifying any valuable state assets. With a real default, there would be less financial destruction. At least the bleed of paying the loans would stop. > It already started with indiscriminately stealing 6% from the bank account holders and can only go downhill. Agreed. > > That is, what percentage isn't going to be paid at all? > Lots of it. Following the same process as with Greece et al, there is definitely going to be a "haircut". Then it will be a (partial) default on the new loans, but it isn't yet.

Evbn 14y ago

Banks are defaulting on 10% of their obligations to accountholders. Money went in, didn't come out.