7 ms·

One aspect of the ilegality, if you will, of card counting I don't yet understand is the fundamental idea behind it: using your brain to make intellectually sou

One aspect of the ilegality, if you will, of card counting I don't yet understand is the fundamental idea behind it: using your brain to make intellectually sound batting choices is not legal. I know the casinos would rather have people turn their brains down to "idiot mode" when they play. However, I can't understand why the law supports the idea that I am not allowed to use my brain, memory and deductive reasoning skills when playing. Weird, I don't get it.

andyakb 14y ago
In the US, and likely most countries, card counting is not illegal. However, casinos can refuse to do business with anybody they want, so they can ban you for it. The exception is Atlantic City where you can't be banned for card counting, but if you are suspected of it, they will use other tactics to negate any advantage you may have (e.g. shuffling after every hand)
- robomartin 14y ago
  Ah, OK, I thought it was illegal.
raldi 14y ago
There's nothing illegal about counting cards. The law simply allows casinos to choose whom they allow to play, or to visit their premesis, and they choose to exercise this right when someone is playing several standard deviations better than math would predict. It's really no different from your choosing to walk away from a table after losing a lot of money.
- triplesec 14y ago
  Casinos have of course been known to use "interesting" methods to ensure you don't come back.
dsrguru 14y ago
This wasn't about card counting (which is an integral part of blackjack strategy and certainly should be legal in any jurisdiction that allows casinos to operate). Counting takes place in your mind. Breaking into the casino's surveillance feed to learn extra information is outright cheating (and therefore, theft). I'm curious to know what information the player obtained. I can't imagine there are cameras low enough to glimpse the dealer's hole card before it is set down. Perhaps multiple accomplices each watched a table, keeping count and waiting for the count to be high (meaning the chance of drawing a ten-value card or an ace was very high), and then told the player to move to that table?
- T-hawk 14y ago
  The article doesn't even say what game he was playing. It wasn't necessarily blackjack, which as you observe doesn't confer a big advantage by knowing the enemy cards since your bet is already set and your strategy mostly is. Poker permits the most leverage for knowing hidden information, but in poker you scam the other players, not the casino (casinos very rarely offer poker games played against the house.) Maybe it was Pai Gow Poker, which does have strategy that can be exploited by knowing the dealer hand you need to beat, and is often played for high stakes in VIP rooms.
jnsaff2 14y ago
The argument Casinos use is that they are in the business of "games of chance" and card counting is more like a "game of skill". I still think they are full of manure with this, but that explains a little bit of their angle.

andyakb 14y ago

In the US, and likely most countries, card counting is not illegal. However, casinos can refuse to do business with anybody they want, so they can ban you for it. The exception is Atlantic City where you can't be banned for card counting, but if you are suspected of it, they will use other tactics to negate any advantage you may have (e.g. shuffling after every hand)

robomartin 14y ago
Ah, OK, I thought it was illegal.

raldi 14y ago

There's nothing illegal about counting cards. The law simply allows casinos to choose whom they allow to play, or to visit their premesis, and they choose to exercise this right when someone is playing several standard deviations better than math would predict. It's really no different from your choosing to walk away from a table after losing a lot of money.

triplesec 14y ago
Casinos have of course been known to use "interesting" methods to ensure you don't come back.

dsrguru 14y ago

This wasn't about card counting (which is an integral part of blackjack strategy and certainly should be legal in any jurisdiction that allows casinos to operate). Counting takes place in your mind. Breaking into the casino's surveillance feed to learn extra information is outright cheating (and therefore, theft). I'm curious to know what information the player obtained. I can't imagine there are cameras low enough to glimpse the dealer's hole card before it is set down. Perhaps multiple accomplices each watched a table, keeping count and waiting for the count to be high (meaning the chance of drawing a ten-value card or an ace was very high), and then told the player to move to that table?

T-hawk 14y ago
The article doesn't even say what game he was playing. It wasn't necessarily blackjack, which as you observe doesn't confer a big advantage by knowing the enemy cards since your bet is already set and your strategy mostly is. Poker permits the most leverage for knowing hidden information, but in poker you scam the other players, not the casino (casinos very rarely offer poker games played against the house.) Maybe it was Pai Gow Poker, which does have strategy that can be exploited by knowing the dealer hand you need to beat, and is often played for high stakes in VIP rooms.

jnsaff2 14y ago

The argument Casinos use is that they are in the business of "games of chance" and card counting is more like a "game of skill". I still think they are full of manure with this, but that explains a little bit of their angle.