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The alternative is that Uber's drivers are somehow entitled to a better deal than they are getting, can you explain how that is the case? I may not be a blue c

The alternative is that Uber's drivers are somehow entitled to a better deal than they are getting, can you explain how that is the case? I may not be a blue collar worker but that doesn't mean I expect to be owed any sort of deal from anyone. If I feel like I'm getting a raw deal I'm going to leave that situation and find a better deal elsewhere. It's that simple.

habosa 14y ago
That's a pretty binary viewpoint. I'm sure that at some point in my life I'll feel like I deserve a raise or a promotion and I will ask for one rather than just quitting when I don't get it.
- badgar 14y ago
  > binary viewpoint You're either with the startups or you're against them. Supporting workers in this case means you're against the startups, and that's "wrong." Of course HN members don't write that, but people are here in large part to support their passion for startups - don't challenge that or you're gonna have a bad time. Every would-be founder here is thinking they'd can 50,000 taxi drivers in a heartbeat if it meant a shot at the big time.
- kirillzubovsky 14y ago
  So, are you saying that if you ask for a raise/promotion and don't get it, then you will gather your friends around your bosses's cubicle and chant and protest until you get what you want ? That's definitely going to get you a promotion, yeah.
- jfoster 14y ago
  Asking for something is a bit different than protesting for it. Typically you'd first ask, and then you'd either get it, leave, ask more, or move on to a more forceful way of "asking" (such as protesting or striking).
pifflesnort 14y ago
> I may not be a blue collar worker but that doesn't mean I expect to be owed any sort of deal from anyone. If I feel like I'm getting a raw deal I'm going to leave that situation and find a better deal elsewhere. It's that simple. They're negotiating for a better deal. They just happen to be using different tactics than you would.
- kirillzubovsky 14y ago
  And that's the problem. This whole union-style protest negotiation tactic is absurd. They are not entitled to a better deal as long as other workers are able, willing and qualified to step into their shoes and do the job. You work or you are out, it's pretty simple. Given Uber's recent history with authority, I wouldn't be surprised if some shady organization employed all these unhappy people to go and protest. Most like, actually.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - BrandonM 14y ago
    Everyone is entitled to some basic level of human decency in their interactions with others; our society relies on this. And we are also entitled to draw attention, in any legal manner we choose, to a situation where we feel that we are not being treated appropriately. Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly is there for a reason, and it's not automatically evil just because you don't agree with the ends.
    - dantheman 14y ago
      Freedom of speech and assembly have nothing to do with this. And they're not freedom from repercussions by private actors, but merely freedom from government force. I personally think tactics like these are counterproductive and that it'd be better to handle it internally.
      - marcos123 14y ago
mvc 14y ago
I've only ever caught one Uber but I wasn't overly impressed. I think the business opportunity wouldn't even exist in the UK because regular taxis are at a similar standard and cost less. They seem to be hacking the law/industry in order to provide a service some way between taxis and limos at a cost that is just above taxis. But then they expect the drivers to work at taxi wages. If they think students can deliver the same service at taxi driver prices, good luck to them
- sambe 14y ago
  Über is in London. My experience of London cabs is dated but would be that they are not even close. Drivers can be chatty (but maybe not in the way I want) and knowledgeable, but not always. Cars are not even close. No refreshments, have to fiddle with cash etc. Great app to locate and track pick-up, rating system (in principle, despite this article, a good idea)
BrandonM 14y ago
It's really easy when you are intelligent and your core competency is in high demand to view the entire world through rose colored lenses. You have so many choices of where to work that you are treated pretty good on the whole. A lot of people are not so lucky. Let's not pretend that they have the same advantages and opportunities as we do. When they organize to try to raise awareness that they feel they are being treated unreasonably, let's not pretend like they are somehow evil. We are a bunch of humans living together on this tiny blue dot. We are entitled to be treated with the respect that any human deserves. Please, try to have a little bit of perspective outside your own experience. There is a whole world of people whose circumstances are far different from anything you can imagine.
antihero 14y ago
Ok, so Uber's drivers aren't being fairly compensated for the immense amount of value they provide to Uber, so they are not whining about it on the internet, they are getting off of their arses and trying to get Uber to fairly compensate them. I fail to see the entitlement here. The flipside of entitlement is exploitation - Uber are exploiting the low-pay and restricted bargaining power of blue collar workers to their own ends. I think that is far more reprehensible. As intelligent, fast-learning people in a market that allows for a greater deal of freedom than theirs, it is wrong to judge them. They are in a shittier situation than us, and are trying to change that. Surely we should be admiring them for taking the initiative and doing this?

habosa 14y ago

That's a pretty binary viewpoint. I'm sure that at some point in my life I'll feel like I deserve a raise or a promotion and I will ask for one rather than just quitting when I don't get it.

badgar 14y ago
> binary viewpoint You're either with the startups or you're against them. Supporting workers in this case means you're against the startups, and that's "wrong." Of course HN members don't write that, but people are here in large part to support their passion for startups - don't challenge that or you're gonna have a bad time. Every would-be founder here is thinking they'd can 50,000 taxi drivers in a heartbeat if it meant a shot at the big time.
kirillzubovsky 14y ago
So, are you saying that if you ask for a raise/promotion and don't get it, then you will gather your friends around your bosses's cubicle and chant and protest until you get what you want ? That's definitely going to get you a promotion, yeah.
jfoster 14y ago
Asking for something is a bit different than protesting for it. Typically you'd first ask, and then you'd either get it, leave, ask more, or move on to a more forceful way of "asking" (such as protesting or striking).

pifflesnort 14y ago

> I may not be a blue collar worker but that doesn't mean I expect to be owed any sort of deal from anyone. If I feel like I'm getting a raw deal I'm going to leave that situation and find a better deal elsewhere. It's that simple. They're negotiating for a better deal. They just happen to be using different tactics than you would.

kirillzubovsky 14y ago
And that's the problem. This whole union-style protest negotiation tactic is absurd. They are not entitled to a better deal as long as other workers are able, willing and qualified to step into their shoes and do the job. You work or you are out, it's pretty simple. Given Uber's recent history with authority, I wouldn't be surprised if some shady organization employed all these unhappy people to go and protest. Most like, actually.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- BrandonM 14y ago
  Everyone is entitled to some basic level of human decency in their interactions with others; our society relies on this. And we are also entitled to draw attention, in any legal manner we choose, to a situation where we feel that we are not being treated appropriately. Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly is there for a reason, and it's not automatically evil just because you don't agree with the ends.
  - dantheman 14y ago
    Freedom of speech and assembly have nothing to do with this. And they're not freedom from repercussions by private actors, but merely freedom from government force. I personally think tactics like these are counterproductive and that it'd be better to handle it internally.
    - marcos123 14y ago

mvc 14y ago

I've only ever caught one Uber but I wasn't overly impressed. I think the business opportunity wouldn't even exist in the UK because regular taxis are at a similar standard and cost less. They seem to be hacking the law/industry in order to provide a service some way between taxis and limos at a cost that is just above taxis. But then they expect the drivers to work at taxi wages. If they think students can deliver the same service at taxi driver prices, good luck to them

sambe 14y ago
Über is in London. My experience of London cabs is dated but would be that they are not even close. Drivers can be chatty (but maybe not in the way I want) and knowledgeable, but not always. Cars are not even close. No refreshments, have to fiddle with cash etc. Great app to locate and track pick-up, rating system (in principle, despite this article, a good idea)

BrandonM 14y ago

It's really easy when you are intelligent and your core competency is in high demand to view the entire world through rose colored lenses. You have so many choices of where to work that you are treated pretty good on the whole. A lot of people are not so lucky. Let's not pretend that they have the same advantages and opportunities as we do. When they organize to try to raise awareness that they feel they are being treated unreasonably, let's not pretend like they are somehow evil. We are a bunch of humans living together on this tiny blue dot. We are entitled to be treated with the respect that any human deserves. Please, try to have a little bit of perspective outside your own experience. There is a whole world of people whose circumstances are far different from anything you can imagine.

antihero 14y ago

Ok, so Uber's drivers aren't being fairly compensated for the immense amount of value they provide to Uber, so they are not whining about it on the internet, they are getting off of their arses and trying to get Uber to fairly compensate them. I fail to see the entitlement here. The flipside of entitlement is exploitation - Uber are exploiting the low-pay and restricted bargaining power of blue collar workers to their own ends. I think that is far more reprehensible. As intelligent, fast-learning people in a market that allows for a greater deal of freedom than theirs, it is wrong to judge them. They are in a shittier situation than us, and are trying to change that. Surely we should be admiring them for taking the initiative and doing this?