7 ms·

Why is the prevailing attitude in these comments "they have no contract with Uber, they should leave if they don't like it"? Many people in tech have at-will c

by habosa 14y ago

Why is the prevailing attitude in these comments "they have no contract with Uber, they should leave if they don't like it"? Many people in tech have at-will contracts yet when we get articles on HN about bad work conditions we don't just say "well then quit!". I do agree that in the long term these unhappy drivers should look for a different source of income but for now they clearly need uber and as such it's not unfair of them to express their distaste for certain things uber does until they find a better place to work.

wilfra 14y ago
Why? Because taxi drivers are blue collar workers and people perceive them as commodities who should feel lucky to be employed. It works the other way also. Try getting sympathy from a mechanic because Yahoo wont let you earn 6 figures writing code from your house.
- habosa 14y ago
  I didn't want to outright accuse the commenters of that sort of sentiment but that does seem to be the case.
  - badgar 14y ago
    HN commenters are just people like you and me. They care about people like themselves more than people not like themselves. To HN commenters, Uber's founders are like them and taxi drivers aren't. Of course they're going to side with the company here.
    - Shivetya 14y ago
      I have gone through my life with one rule, anyone who is providing me a service I address by Sir or Ma'am. I do not care if its the order taker at McDonalds, the register operator at Wal-Mart, or my Doctor. They are people performing jobs whose service I need or may need, I respect anyone out there earning a living for themselves and their families. For myself it puts everything in perspective, we are all trying to make it in this world and there is nothing to gain by disparaging the position of others. There are times where I really like the people at McDonalds than those I work for, the pretentiousness at times is discouraging.
    - subsystem 14y ago
      I'm not so sure. I've always felt there's a quite specific form of elitism among many HN readers. Somewhat similar to what you find in business schools, but less based on privileged and more on a lack of "bildung".
  - jamiequint 14y ago
    The alternative is that Uber's drivers are somehow entitled to a better deal than they are getting, can you explain how that is the case? I may not be a blue collar worker but that doesn't mean I expect to be owed any sort of deal from anyone. If I feel like I'm getting a raw deal I'm going to leave that situation and find a better deal elsewhere. It's that simple.
    - habosa 14y ago
      That's a pretty binary viewpoint. I'm sure that at some point in my life I'll feel like I deserve a raise or a promotion and I will ask for one rather than just quitting when I don't get it.
      - badgar 14y ago
        > binary viewpoint You're either with the startups or you're against them. Supporting workers in this case means you're against the startups, and that's "wrong." Of course HN members don't write that, but people are here in large part to support their passion for startups - don't challenge that or you're gonna have a bad time. Every would-be founder here is thinking they'd can 50,000 taxi drivers in a heartbeat if it meant a shot at the big time.
      - kirillzubovsky 14y ago
        So, are you saying that if you ask for a raise/promotion and don't get it, then you will gather your friends around your bosses's cubicle and chant and protest until you get what you want ? That's definitely going to get you a promotion, yeah.
      - jfoster 14y ago
        Asking for something is a bit different than protesting for it. Typically you'd first ask, and then you'd either get it, leave, ask more, or move on to a more forceful way of "asking" (such as protesting or striking).
    - pifflesnort 14y ago
      > I may not be a blue collar worker but that doesn't mean I expect to be owed any sort of deal from anyone. If I feel like I'm getting a raw deal I'm going to leave that situation and find a better deal elsewhere. It's that simple. They're negotiating for a better deal. They just happen to be using different tactics than you would.
- seivan 14y ago
  I like blue collar workers more than I like Marketing, UX-guys and MBA's.
  - PKop 14y ago
    So what?
jamiequint 14y ago
I'm not sure which bad work conditions articles you're referring to but if you're a developer and your employer is giving you a hard time or being unfair you should quit. That is a much better solution than expecting someone else to legislate some kind of solution to your problem (with all the externalities that usually go along with such "solutions").
- habosa 14y ago
  I'm just saying that people don't always have the luxury of quitting, especially when you're working because you need the paycheck in the short term which I'm betting is more common for Uber drivers than for software engineers. Like I said, they should quit in the long term if things don't improve but I don't think it's crazy for them to attempt to get their current employer to make improvements before they walk out the door.
- kirillzubovsky 14y ago
  Jamie, you know, it's kind of funny that people complain about these driver's "poor" conditions. I took an Uber black car ride about a month ago and chatted with the driver - he works for 6 months and then passes the car to his cousin, while he uses all the money he's earned to chill on the beach in Brazil. Oh, did I mention that he works for ~20 hours, but only 3 times a week, or whenever he feels like getting out of bed? Yeah, the dude wasn't just unhappy, he was overjoyed with the flexibility and ridiculously good pay of his job. But of course, if 10 people chant outside of a building, they aren't just disgruntle losers, they are unhappy because they aren't given then. sigh
  - pron 14y ago
    I've seen CEOs making millions of dollars act like "disgruntled losers" because they feel they haven't been paid enough. Who decides what is enough? An employee may get paid what you think is a lot, but still not what he thinks is fair, and he may be right. All I can say is -- without knowing which party is right in this particular case - that there are people on wall street making much more money than Uber drivers for much less work; they certainly contribute less to society, if at all.
doktrin 14y ago
Frankly, the entire mentality reminds me of such absurdities as "America, love it or leave it" and "if you don't like it, go to Russia". Not only are such responses markedly devoid of empathy, they are also bizarrely illogical. Employees and "partners" both have the right to organize and attempt to effect change. Lastly, all this free market cheerleading also sounds fairly hollow coming from a currently privileged class. I can't help but think attitudes would be different in more trying times.

by habosa 14y ago

wilfra 14y ago

Why? Because taxi drivers are blue collar workers and people perceive them as commodities who should feel lucky to be employed. It works the other way also. Try getting sympathy from a mechanic because Yahoo wont let you earn 6 figures writing code from your house.

habosa 14y ago
I didn't want to outright accuse the commenters of that sort of sentiment but that does seem to be the case.
- badgar 14y ago
  HN commenters are just people like you and me. They care about people like themselves more than people not like themselves. To HN commenters, Uber's founders are like them and taxi drivers aren't. Of course they're going to side with the company here.
  - Shivetya 14y ago
    I have gone through my life with one rule, anyone who is providing me a service I address by Sir or Ma'am. I do not care if its the order taker at McDonalds, the register operator at Wal-Mart, or my Doctor. They are people performing jobs whose service I need or may need, I respect anyone out there earning a living for themselves and their families. For myself it puts everything in perspective, we are all trying to make it in this world and there is nothing to gain by disparaging the position of others. There are times where I really like the people at McDonalds than those I work for, the pretentiousness at times is discouraging.
  - subsystem 14y ago
    I'm not so sure. I've always felt there's a quite specific form of elitism among many HN readers. Somewhat similar to what you find in business schools, but less based on privileged and more on a lack of "bildung".
- jamiequint 14y ago
  The alternative is that Uber's drivers are somehow entitled to a better deal than they are getting, can you explain how that is the case? I may not be a blue collar worker but that doesn't mean I expect to be owed any sort of deal from anyone. If I feel like I'm getting a raw deal I'm going to leave that situation and find a better deal elsewhere. It's that simple.
  - habosa 14y ago
    That's a pretty binary viewpoint. I'm sure that at some point in my life I'll feel like I deserve a raise or a promotion and I will ask for one rather than just quitting when I don't get it.
    - badgar 14y ago
      > binary viewpoint You're either with the startups or you're against them. Supporting workers in this case means you're against the startups, and that's "wrong." Of course HN members don't write that, but people are here in large part to support their passion for startups - don't challenge that or you're gonna have a bad time. Every would-be founder here is thinking they'd can 50,000 taxi drivers in a heartbeat if it meant a shot at the big time.
    - kirillzubovsky 14y ago
      So, are you saying that if you ask for a raise/promotion and don't get it, then you will gather your friends around your bosses's cubicle and chant and protest until you get what you want ? That's definitely going to get you a promotion, yeah.
    - jfoster 14y ago
      Asking for something is a bit different than protesting for it. Typically you'd first ask, and then you'd either get it, leave, ask more, or move on to a more forceful way of "asking" (such as protesting or striking).
  - pifflesnort 14y ago
    > I may not be a blue collar worker but that doesn't mean I expect to be owed any sort of deal from anyone. If I feel like I'm getting a raw deal I'm going to leave that situation and find a better deal elsewhere. It's that simple. They're negotiating for a better deal. They just happen to be using different tactics than you would.
seivan 14y ago
I like blue collar workers more than I like Marketing, UX-guys and MBA's.
- PKop 14y ago
  So what?

jamiequint 14y ago

I'm not sure which bad work conditions articles you're referring to but if you're a developer and your employer is giving you a hard time or being unfair you should quit. That is a much better solution than expecting someone else to legislate some kind of solution to your problem (with all the externalities that usually go along with such "solutions").

habosa 14y ago
I'm just saying that people don't always have the luxury of quitting, especially when you're working because you need the paycheck in the short term which I'm betting is more common for Uber drivers than for software engineers. Like I said, they should quit in the long term if things don't improve but I don't think it's crazy for them to attempt to get their current employer to make improvements before they walk out the door.
kirillzubovsky 14y ago
Jamie, you know, it's kind of funny that people complain about these driver's "poor" conditions. I took an Uber black car ride about a month ago and chatted with the driver - he works for 6 months and then passes the car to his cousin, while he uses all the money he's earned to chill on the beach in Brazil. Oh, did I mention that he works for ~20 hours, but only 3 times a week, or whenever he feels like getting out of bed? Yeah, the dude wasn't just unhappy, he was overjoyed with the flexibility and ridiculously good pay of his job. But of course, if 10 people chant outside of a building, they aren't just disgruntle losers, they are unhappy because they aren't given then. sigh
- pron 14y ago
  I've seen CEOs making millions of dollars act like "disgruntled losers" because they feel they haven't been paid enough. Who decides what is enough? An employee may get paid what you think is a lot, but still not what he thinks is fair, and he may be right. All I can say is -- without knowing which party is right in this particular case - that there are people on wall street making much more money than Uber drivers for much less work; they certainly contribute less to society, if at all.

doktrin 14y ago

Frankly, the entire mentality reminds me of such absurdities as "America, love it or leave it" and "if you don't like it, go to Russia". Not only are such responses markedly devoid of empathy, they are also bizarrely illogical. Employees and "partners" both have the right to organize and attempt to effect change. Lastly, all this free market cheerleading also sounds fairly hollow coming from a currently privileged class. I can't help but think attitudes would be different in more trying times.