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I do have imagination, but I also do logic. What you don't grasp that iOS developers who can design kinda make most designers useless. They can figure out the c

by seivan 14y ago

I do have imagination, but I also do logic. What you don't grasp that iOS developers who can design kinda make most designers useless. They can figure out the cost/benefit of particular design details. You got a long run way, sure, go ahead and customise the crap out of everything. Short run way? Try to custom the native components (tabs,navigation bars, action-sheets and etc). Most designers are too stupid to actually be able to figure out that some things are hard to do. Makes me thing of the strike through and "bold" text when the iOS SDK first came out. Trying to convince designers that a check mark would take a minute to do compared to a strike through was such a fucking hell and left a bad taste in my mouth. Our run way was short, the SDK new and certain things didn't come out of the box. The cost benefit analysis is in the developers hand. If he/she can design then that makes outside designers useless. The only thing I actually need is illustrators for icons and drawings. Designers and/or "Mobile UX Experts" are redundant.

pazimzadeh 14y ago
I think that you don't actually disagree with me. Dropbox does not have a short runway, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Obviously, development and design are not mutually exclusive. Loren Brichter for example, is a great designer and a great developer. By not relying on Apple's standard components, he created one of the best Mac apps (Tweetie) which set a new bar for Mac apps and inspired others to do the same (Sparrow). I like when designers and developers who are perfectionists work together: http://www.cabel.name/2007/09/coda-toolbar-and-three-pixel-conundrum.html http://www.cabel.name/2007/09/coda-toolbar-and-three-pixel-c.... If you can't implement the designs that you dream of, don't convince yourself that the dream wasn't a good one. It sounds like the app you were working on was a to-do list of sorts. I suppose that you think that too much thought went into the design of this app, then: http://culturedcode.com/things/iphone/makingof/ http://culturedcode.com/things/iphone/makingof/ Somehow, they managed to ship a finished product in 2008 without sacrificing good design. This obviously is only capable if you have enough resources, including development talent. Do you think that Dropbox lacks the resources to create a better app? Or is your point that we should quit when it gets too hard?
- seivan 14y ago
  I'm talking general run way, not Dropbox. If you can cut your costs efficiently, you should, regardless of who you are. I am not saying you should rely on native standards without innovating, I am saying a developer is a better person to make those decisions where you wanna tweak design that might be hellish in code than a designer. I like developers who can design. Period. Especially iOS where the damn controllers are called -VIEW-Controllers. If you're a startup, get a iOS developer who can design. It's cheaper, it's smarter. It's better. Less person to maintain, less communication errors and those thing happen because we're human. It's one of the platforms where the developer SHOULD be able to design and rightfully do so. I've never come to respect designers for iOS (I can't speak for Android, but I wonder if it's the same). One trick ponies. If you can't code your views, then get a different job. I am sure there are developers who can design and then code it. http://flyosity.com http://flyosity.com Don't get those oil snakes men that trick you into thinking their bullshit user interface design education is worth anything. The only objective UX is speed, and that comes from the developer. Most of the time UX (and design) is subjective. Sure you have bad ones, and good ones, but in the end it's mostly a matter of taste. Get a developer who has taste. Most developers are also "app users", so they should be aware of what works and what doesn't and can work in their own "smart" features. Drag to refresh, swipe for menu and etc. Design comes with that. Having worked for so many UX dickheads, who were just managers who couldn't code... or even better "idea-cunts" I've come to hate them more than MBA's. At least an MBA knows stuff I might not be aware of. It's not just about run way. I rather have 2-3 developers who can design than mixing in some non-dev who just wastes everyones time. So you have a design suggestion (read IDEA)? Woopdi-fucking do so do my 3 developers as well. Except they can code it. That's what UX people are.. idea guys... managers...useless. "Getting into the tech scene when you have no skills" - Easy, just tell them you're a product and UX guy http://josephwalla.com/getting-into-the-tech-scene-when-you-have-no-skills http://josephwalla.com/getting-into-the-tech-scene-when-you-...

by seivan 14y ago

pazimzadeh 14y ago

I think that you don't actually disagree with me. Dropbox does not have a short runway, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Obviously, development and design are not mutually exclusive. Loren Brichter for example, is a great designer and a great developer. By not relying on Apple's standard components, he created one of the best Mac apps (Tweetie) which set a new bar for Mac apps and inspired others to do the same (Sparrow). I like when designers and developers who are perfectionists work together: http://www.cabel.name/2007/09/coda-toolbar-and-three-pixel-conundrum.html http://www.cabel.name/2007/09/coda-toolbar-and-three-pixel-c.... If you can't implement the designs that you dream of, don't convince yourself that the dream wasn't a good one. It sounds like the app you were working on was a to-do list of sorts. I suppose that you think that too much thought went into the design of this app, then: http://culturedcode.com/things/iphone/makingof/ http://culturedcode.com/things/iphone/makingof/ Somehow, they managed to ship a finished product in 2008 without sacrificing good design. This obviously is only capable if you have enough resources, including development talent. Do you think that Dropbox lacks the resources to create a better app? Or is your point that we should quit when it gets too hard?

seivan 14y ago
I'm talking general run way, not Dropbox. If you can cut your costs efficiently, you should, regardless of who you are. I am not saying you should rely on native standards without innovating, I am saying a developer is a better person to make those decisions where you wanna tweak design that might be hellish in code than a designer. I like developers who can design. Period. Especially iOS where the damn controllers are called -VIEW-Controllers. If you're a startup, get a iOS developer who can design. It's cheaper, it's smarter. It's better. Less person to maintain, less communication errors and those thing happen because we're human. It's one of the platforms where the developer SHOULD be able to design and rightfully do so. I've never come to respect designers for iOS (I can't speak for Android, but I wonder if it's the same). One trick ponies. If you can't code your views, then get a different job. I am sure there are developers who can design and then code it. http://flyosity.com http://flyosity.com Don't get those oil snakes men that trick you into thinking their bullshit user interface design education is worth anything. The only objective UX is speed, and that comes from the developer. Most of the time UX (and design) is subjective. Sure you have bad ones, and good ones, but in the end it's mostly a matter of taste. Get a developer who has taste. Most developers are also "app users", so they should be aware of what works and what doesn't and can work in their own "smart" features. Drag to refresh, swipe for menu and etc. Design comes with that. Having worked for so many UX dickheads, who were just managers who couldn't code... or even better "idea-cunts" I've come to hate them more than MBA's. At least an MBA knows stuff I might not be aware of. It's not just about run way. I rather have 2-3 developers who can design than mixing in some non-dev who just wastes everyones time. So you have a design suggestion (read IDEA)? Woopdi-fucking do so do my 3 developers as well. Except they can code it. That's what UX people are.. idea guys... managers...useless. "Getting into the tech scene when you have no skills" - Easy, just tell them you're a product and UX guy http://josephwalla.com/getting-into-the-tech-scene-when-you-have-no-skills http://josephwalla.com/getting-into-the-tech-scene-when-you-...