4 ms·

What's wrong with tabs? I'm personally not a big fan of designers trying to out-clever user familiarity by getting rid of tabs (or other standard interaction m

What's wrong with tabs? I'm personally not a big fan of designers trying to out-clever user familiarity by getting rid of tabs (or other standard interaction models to which users are accustomed). Are tabs sexy? Maybe not, or at least designers don't think so. However, tabs are very well placed in terms of usability, very familiar to users, instantly understandable, and a lot less complicated than the back-bending design gymnastics some designers are doing just to be different from Apple.

seivan 14y ago
Same here, what the guy doesn't understand is that tab based scale easily when doing universal apps. The tabs move over to a side panel on the iPad. Works out of the box and offers the ability to write a single code base for both platforms. Most designers ("UX monkeys") are too dumb to realise this as they are just Photoshop slingers and can't code for shit nor know the SDK. It has an amazing cost benefit when you're a small startup and want to push to both platforms without compromising design. Seriously, Tab based works wonders when doing universal - mostly because it's out of the box. Another way is the side panel. Now that comes out of the box for iPad, but not iPhone. Using a tab gives you the ability to have a tab on the iPhone and side panel on the iPad with as little change as possible.
- Alshie 14y ago
  Suspect it was more likely that he thinks the ease of development shouldn't be the sole consideration in the design of an app. Just because the SDK makes it easy does not make it the best design solution.
- pazimzadeh 14y ago
  I may lack coding chops, but you lack imagination. Don't let the coders design, I guess. http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/03/10/designers-are-not-programmers/ http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/03/10/designers-are-not-p... I replied above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5382745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5382745
  - seivan 14y ago
    I do have imagination, but I also do logic. What you don't grasp that iOS developers who can design kinda make most designers useless. They can figure out the cost/benefit of particular design details. You got a long run way, sure, go ahead and customise the crap out of everything. Short run way? Try to custom the native components (tabs,navigation bars, action-sheets and etc). Most designers are too stupid to actually be able to figure out that some things are hard to do. Makes me thing of the strike through and "bold" text when the iOS SDK first came out. Trying to convince designers that a check mark would take a minute to do compared to a strike through was such a fucking hell and left a bad taste in my mouth. Our run way was short, the SDK new and certain things didn't come out of the box. The cost benefit analysis is in the developers hand. If he/she can design then that makes outside designers useless. The only thing I actually need is illustrators for icons and drawings. Designers and/or "Mobile UX Experts" are redundant.
    - pazimzadeh 14y ago
      I think that you don't actually disagree with me. Dropbox does not have a short runway, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Obviously, development and design are not mutually exclusive. Loren Brichter for example, is a great designer and a great developer. By not relying on Apple's standard components, he created one of the best Mac apps (Tweetie) which set a new bar for Mac apps and inspired others to do the same (Sparrow). I like when designers and developers who are perfectionists work together: http://www.cabel.name/2007/09/coda-toolbar-and-three-pixel-conundrum.html http://www.cabel.name/2007/09/coda-toolbar-and-three-pixel-c.... If you can't implement the designs that you dream of, don't convince yourself that the dream wasn't a good one. It sounds like the app you were working on was a to-do list of sorts. I suppose that you think that too much thought went into the design of this app, then: http://culturedcode.com/things/iphone/makingof/ http://culturedcode.com/things/iphone/makingof/ Somehow, they managed to ship a finished product in 2008 without sacrificing good design. This obviously is only capable if you have enough resources, including development talent. Do you think that Dropbox lacks the resources to create a better app? Or is your point that we should quit when it gets too hard?
pazimzadeh 14y ago
Tabs are a great starting point since they're so close to your thumb, but that's not enough. And Dropbox can afford the best. I haven't put much thought into designing a file system app, so here goes nothing: * The Camera Upload tab assumes that you're using it. Make it a list item in the main content tab. * Create a special folder called Clipboard, give it its own tab with a big plus button. When you add a file to the Clipboard, you can instantly copy the link to it. * The current sharing screen is daunting [http://d.pr/i/8v2r http://d.pr/i/8v2r], and doesn't keep up with the SDK [http://d.pr/i/5Z1g http://d.pr/i/5Z1g]. * On Mac, let people add files to Clipboard by dragging files to the menu bar icon like getcloudapp.com. * As a bonus, I'd like a visualization of your largest files and folders vs. those that are are accessed most often.

seivan 14y ago

Same here, what the guy doesn't understand is that tab based scale easily when doing universal apps. The tabs move over to a side panel on the iPad. Works out of the box and offers the ability to write a single code base for both platforms. Most designers ("UX monkeys") are too dumb to realise this as they are just Photoshop slingers and can't code for shit nor know the SDK. It has an amazing cost benefit when you're a small startup and want to push to both platforms without compromising design. Seriously, Tab based works wonders when doing universal - mostly because it's out of the box. Another way is the side panel. Now that comes out of the box for iPad, but not iPhone. Using a tab gives you the ability to have a tab on the iPhone and side panel on the iPad with as little change as possible.

Alshie 14y ago
Suspect it was more likely that he thinks the ease of development shouldn't be the sole consideration in the design of an app. Just because the SDK makes it easy does not make it the best design solution.
pazimzadeh 14y ago
I may lack coding chops, but you lack imagination. Don't let the coders design, I guess. http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/03/10/designers-are-not-programmers/ http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2009/03/10/designers-are-not-p... I replied above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5382745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5382745
- seivan 14y ago
  I do have imagination, but I also do logic. What you don't grasp that iOS developers who can design kinda make most designers useless. They can figure out the cost/benefit of particular design details. You got a long run way, sure, go ahead and customise the crap out of everything. Short run way? Try to custom the native components (tabs,navigation bars, action-sheets and etc). Most designers are too stupid to actually be able to figure out that some things are hard to do. Makes me thing of the strike through and "bold" text when the iOS SDK first came out. Trying to convince designers that a check mark would take a minute to do compared to a strike through was such a fucking hell and left a bad taste in my mouth. Our run way was short, the SDK new and certain things didn't come out of the box. The cost benefit analysis is in the developers hand. If he/she can design then that makes outside designers useless. The only thing I actually need is illustrators for icons and drawings. Designers and/or "Mobile UX Experts" are redundant.
  - pazimzadeh 14y ago
    I think that you don't actually disagree with me. Dropbox does not have a short runway, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Obviously, development and design are not mutually exclusive. Loren Brichter for example, is a great designer and a great developer. By not relying on Apple's standard components, he created one of the best Mac apps (Tweetie) which set a new bar for Mac apps and inspired others to do the same (Sparrow). I like when designers and developers who are perfectionists work together: http://www.cabel.name/2007/09/coda-toolbar-and-three-pixel-conundrum.html http://www.cabel.name/2007/09/coda-toolbar-and-three-pixel-c.... If you can't implement the designs that you dream of, don't convince yourself that the dream wasn't a good one. It sounds like the app you were working on was a to-do list of sorts. I suppose that you think that too much thought went into the design of this app, then: http://culturedcode.com/things/iphone/makingof/ http://culturedcode.com/things/iphone/makingof/ Somehow, they managed to ship a finished product in 2008 without sacrificing good design. This obviously is only capable if you have enough resources, including development talent. Do you think that Dropbox lacks the resources to create a better app? Or is your point that we should quit when it gets too hard?

pazimzadeh 14y ago

Tabs are a great starting point since they're so close to your thumb, but that's not enough. And Dropbox can afford the best. I haven't put much thought into designing a file system app, so here goes nothing: * The Camera Upload tab assumes that you're using it. Make it a list item in the main content tab. * Create a special folder called Clipboard, give it its own tab with a big plus button. When you add a file to the Clipboard, you can instantly copy the link to it. * The current sharing screen is daunting [http://d.pr/i/8v2r http://d.pr/i/8v2r], and doesn't keep up with the SDK [http://d.pr/i/5Z1g http://d.pr/i/5Z1g]. * On Mac, let people add files to Clipboard by dragging files to the menu bar icon like getcloudapp.com. * As a bonus, I'd like a visualization of your largest files and folders vs. those that are are accessed most often.